Thread: Wifes grandfather

Jimbo · 01-10-2006, 03:28 PM

We are searching for my wifes grandfather, who served in the Ist Batallion South Lancashire Regiment. From 1904 to 1926. Throughout the WWl he served in India, doing what our troops are doing now in Afghanistan.
I hired a resercher (expensive) who could only find his medal records. He said that most of W.W.l records were destoyed in the blitz(W.W.2). Does this mean that there is no possible way to locate him ?
He was on 3 pensions when he died in 1961, including his army pension as a CSM. So, who would be holding these records? What of the Regimental pay, & roster records ? Or, even the Regimentle war diaries ?
He is a mystery man. His name was Joseph ELLIS(we think?)Some of family believe he came from Buckinghamshire. Others think it was Lancashire. If he joined the army in 1904 at 14 (underage) would he have joined in Warrington or Preston ? His wife came from Little Missendon, they married in Karachi 1912.
I now it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack but, my brother in law in Fareham & I have been search since 1998. I did manage to find his marraige details from LDS film on Bombay presidency, Indian Colonial Office. His Regimental No was 7992.

If anyone knows where I can go from here. Please let me know.

Jimbo ... West OZ.

Colleen · 05-01-2007, 03:37 PM

Hi Jimbo,

Have you tried the National Archives www.nationalarchives.gov.uk . I had a quick search for WW1 records and there are a few Ellis's listed (example below).

Online Document WO 372/6
Medal Card of Ellis Joseph R , Leicestershire Regiment 2262 Private

Good luck,

Colleen
Date range: 1914 - 1920

Jimbo · 21-03-2007, 11:45 AM

My brother in law has received some enlightning paperwork on Wife's grand father. It comes from army book 358 (not known to me) Joseph Ellis was born at Wolsworth, Hitchin, Herts. born 1887. enlisted 1906 at Royston. Unknown to me was that army gives two numbers. An Army No, & a Regimental No.
Now to find out where this Army book 358 is.

joe scouse · 14-05-2007, 01:01 AM

HI JIMBO TRY THIS SITE 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index

joe in the swingingpig

Jimbo · 14-05-2007, 01:46 PM

Joe Scouse. Hi Joe. Thanks for your reply.
Since my original request, we have found out more on G/Father-in-law. One of the many things that has us puzelled is that, on his return from India to Dublin in 1920. He was a Sarjeant Major or CSM. When discharged in 1925 he was a private. Now, the only way he could have lost rank was by District Court Martial. We are mistyfied by what laws he broke to get a DCM. One of his daughters told me he was involved with the Black & Tans in Ireland. Would records of DCMs be kept by MOD ?

We used to live in Perth (Carine) then moved to Toodyay, & now live in Mandurah.

Best regards ...Jimbo.

joe scouse · 15-05-2007, 12:20 AM

HI JIMBO Thats a bit of a curly one and there's only one way to find out for sure its to get his army record the site i gave you i think is one of the best for getting info ,i traced my g/father on this site ,lots of interested people all willing to help .1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index at least you may get the info on how to go about getting his records,i dont think being a black tan had any bearing on it ,lots of ex soldiers joined the b/tans ,they were hated in Ireland'best wishes with it.joe living in( Rocking ham )

joe scouse · 15-05-2007, 12:35 AM

HI AGAIN JIMBO My Grandfather was a serjeant in the south lancs served in the 14/18 war i sent email to the barracks of the South Lancs in Preston lancs uk try this email add rhq.qir@btconnect.com joe

Jimbo · 15-05-2007, 10:53 AM

G'day Joe. Many thanks for the input. I joined the 1914-1918 Great war forum today. Will need to get the hang of the site layout before I start asking questions.

The wife's G/F joined the 1st Batallion in 1906, & spent the whole of the war in India & Afghanistan. I hired a searcher to get info on him, I wasted my money. He said all relevent records had been destroyed in the London Blitz. All he came up with was his medal card which, I had already got from Nat Archives.

A little known secret of WW 1 records is, that some regimental museums hold a personal record of soldiers in their regiments. It is called Army Book 358. It was started in 1920 & covers those soldiers recruited after the war, & those soldiers that that carried on serving after the war.
I think that to find out why he was demoted I shall have to find out what nasty incidents The South Lancs were involved in. There was the "Sunday, Bloody Sunday " incident that took part at a football game at Coker Park, Dublin in 1920. But, I don't know if they were involved.
I too have found the Sth Lanc's & Loyals Museum to be very helpful.

Regards ....Jimbo.

01-10-2006, 03:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jimbo Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mandurah Western OZ Posts: 108	Wifes grandfather We are searching for my wifes grandfather, who served in the Ist Batallion South Lancashire Regiment. From 1904 to 1926. Throughout the WWl he served in India, doing what our troops are doing now in Afghanistan. I hired a resercher (expensive) who could only find his medal records. He said that most of W.W.l records were destoyed in the blitz(W.W.2). Does this mean that there is no possible way to locate him ? He was on 3 pensions when he died in 1961, including his army pension as a CSM. So, who would be holding these records? What of the Regimental pay, & roster records ? Or, even the Regimentle war diaries ? He is a mystery man. His name was Joseph ELLIS(we think?)Some of family believe he came from Buckinghamshire. Others think it was Lancashire. If he joined the army in 1904 at 14 (underage) would he have joined in Warrington or Preston ? His wife came from Little Missendon, they married in Karachi 1912. I now it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack but, my brother in law in Fareham & I have been search since 1998. I did manage to find his marraige details from LDS film on Bombay presidency, Indian Colonial Office. His Regimental No was 7992. If anyone knows where I can go from here. Please let me know. Jimbo ... West OZ.

05-01-2007, 03:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Colleen New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1	Re: Wifes grandfather Hi Jimbo, Have you tried the National Archives www.nationalarchives.gov.uk . I had a quick search for WW1 records and there are a few Ellis's listed (example below). Online Document WO 372/6 Medal Card of Ellis Joseph R , Leicestershire Regiment 2262 Private Good luck, Colleen Date range: 1914 - 1920
Colleen New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1

21-03-2007, 11:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jimbo Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mandurah Western OZ Posts: 108	Re: Wifes grandfather My brother in law has received some enlightning paperwork on Wife's grand father. It comes from army book 358 (not known to me) Joseph Ellis was born at Wolsworth, Hitchin, Herts. born 1887. enlisted 1906 at Royston. Unknown to me was that army gives two numbers. An Army No, & a Regimental No. Now to find out where this Army book 358 is.

14-05-2007, 01:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
joe scouse Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Perth sunny west Australia Posts: 25	Re: Wifes grandfather HI JIMBO TRY THIS SITE 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index joe in the swingingpig

14-05-2007, 01:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jimbo Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mandurah Western OZ Posts: 108	Re: Wifes grandfather Joe Scouse. Hi Joe. Thanks for your reply. Since my original request, we have found out more on G/Father-in-law. One of the many things that has us puzelled is that, on his return from India to Dublin in 1920. He was a Sarjeant Major or CSM. When discharged in 1925 he was a private. Now, the only way he could have lost rank was by District Court Martial. We are mistyfied by what laws he broke to get a DCM. One of his daughters told me he was involved with the Black & Tans in Ireland. Would records of DCMs be kept by MOD ? We used to live in Perth (Carine) then moved to Toodyay, & now live in Mandurah. Best regards ...Jimbo.

15-05-2007, 12:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
joe scouse Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Perth sunny west Australia Posts: 25	Re: Wifes grandfather HI JIMBO Thats a bit of a curly one and there's only one way to find out for sure its to get his army record the site i gave you i think is one of the best for getting info ,i traced my g/father on this site ,lots of interested people all willing to help .1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index at least you may get the info on how to go about getting his records,i dont think being a black tan had any bearing on it ,lots of ex soldiers joined the b/tans ,they were hated in Ireland'best wishes with it.joe living in( Rocking ham )

15-05-2007, 12:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
joe scouse Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Perth sunny west Australia Posts: 25	Re: Wifes grandfather HI AGAIN JIMBO My Grandfather was a serjeant in the south lancs served in the 14/18 war i sent email to the barracks of the South Lancs in Preston lancs uk try this email add rhq.qir@btconnect.com joe

15-05-2007, 10:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jimbo Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mandurah Western OZ Posts: 108	Re: Wifes grandfather G'day Joe. Many thanks for the input. I joined the 1914-1918 Great war forum today. Will need to get the hang of the site layout before I start asking questions. The wife's G/F joined the 1st Batallion in 1906, & spent the whole of the war in India & Afghanistan. I hired a searcher to get info on him, I wasted my money. He said all relevent records had been destroyed in the London Blitz. All he came up with was his medal card which, I had already got from Nat Archives. A little known secret of WW 1 records is, that some regimental museums hold a personal record of soldiers in their regiments. It is called Army Book 358. It was started in 1920 & covers those soldiers recruited after the war, & those soldiers that that carried on serving after the war. I think that to find out why he was demoted I shall have to find out what nasty incidents The South Lancs were involved in. There was the "Sunday, Bloody Sunday " incident that took part at a football game at Coker Park, Dublin in 1920. But, I don't know if they were involved. I too have found the Sth Lanc's & Loyals Museum to be very helpful. Regards ....Jimbo.