Thread: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly...

bwdial · 20-06-2008, 05:50 PM

... and any others that are related.
I know the D'Oyley (D'Oyly, D'Oilli, etc.) are supposed to be my ancestors, but my (scant) research has led me to wonder. I do know (or at least have read) that my ancestors came from the Oxfordshire area, but I wonder if there really is a connection. There's also evidence of Scottish ties, but I'm not really sure.

KKluger · 20-06-2008, 11:40 PM

Thank you for this post -- I have wondered the exact same thing. I am trying to find proof of the marriage between d'Oyly and Hatfield so that I can understand the info uncovered so far. I wish I could help you more, but promise to share if I find something you might be interested in. KKluger

bwdial · 21-06-2008, 01:02 AM

James H. Dial and Susannah Hatfield?
James is the wild card for me. Some sources call him James H. Dial, others call him James H. D'Oyley. He is reported to have been born in Oxfordshire. I've seen a few people who try to place him with a D'Oyley clan from Shotesham, but I think people are reaching too far. It would have required two children to be born in Norfolk, then the family would have had to move to Oxford so James could be born and then back to Shotesham to have a whole bunch of more kids. That scenario just doesn't make sense to me.

Have you heard of a book called History of the House of D'Oyly by William D'Oyly Bayley? I've seen that it's in the British Library and I'm thinking about purchasing a copy online.

KKluger · 21-06-2008, 02:03 AM

James' marriage to Susannah is the weak link for me -- I cannot prove it (beyond the postings on LDS). SOme of the online geneaologists have a 100 year span between his birth and marriage, so that does not help things. I have never been able to document his movement from Oxon to Scotland, and I have never found iany verifiable nfo on her.

Years ago I purchased Bayley's book from the British Library Archives -- it was about $140 US Dollars then, including transatlantic postage; I shudder to think what it is now. It's a very interesting read, though. The D'Oyly clan was large and did, in fact, split off and move about quite a bit; I think they were nomads. Bayley even mentioned the part of the clan that moved to Ireland, but had no further information on them. The book is quite large.

I have all but one of the family history books written about the DIALs. It's $125 and I just can't pull the trigger on that yet because I've been so disappointed in the others. It's easy enough to go down to my local LDS Center and look at it on microfiche, but it's an hour's drive one-way and I just have to make the effort. If you're interested (or have it already and know it's missing vital data) the name of it is:
"Burris Dial and Descendants, Ancestors, and Allied Families"
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=BURRIS+DIAL&sts=t

Good luck!
Kathleen

bwdial · 27-06-2008, 03:44 PM

I think they can scan Bayley's book and send it as a PDF now. Probably a bit cheaper. I may go ahead and bite the bullet.

Do you have the book Martin Dial and his Descendants?

KKluger · 30-06-2008, 11:04 PM

Yes, I do have the "Martin Dial....." book and it does not shed any light on the English/Irish d'Oyly/Doyley/Dyall/Dial lines at all. The narrative just picks up from "James H Dial, son of William Doyley and Margaret Randall" and the trouble with this is, there is no such "James H" son of the above- mentioned in Bayley's history.

All we really have of the English/Irish lineage, so far, is anecdotal. Just today I found another reference to "James H Dial, son of....." and the birth year given is 1638 but the marriage year to Susanna Hatfield is given as 1615 -- nice trick, eh?

Kathleen

bwdial · 01-07-2008, 03:13 PM

Hastings Harrison did a good job on this side of the pond, but you're right. Any and all data from a generation or so before Martin is just guesswork. My father has an original copy from back in the fifties and I think a copy has been willed to me by an aunt. There's a guy online from Texas who says he was given the correspondence that Harrison collected while he was researching. Apparently, Harrison's children didn't care about it, so he gave it to someone he knew did.
Someday, I'm going to England to dig up the history there. I'd love to research and create a volume about our family history prior to migration to the colonies.

KKluger · 01-07-2008, 05:48 PM

Before you jump the pond to research the generation-before-migration you really will want to read Bayley's "History of the House of Doyly". You will see, as have I, that the 'family' was soooooo spread out it will be nearly impossible to pick the right starting place. Not to mention that the William Doyley marriage to Margaret Randall produced no known James Henry Dial, and there you have our very dilemma. There are two Doyly families that Bayley admits not knowing anything about and I wonder if it is within one of them that the James Henry derives.
Another Dial researcher feels James Henry Dial came to the States with his cousin, Henry Arthur Dial, but I can find no mention of this particular relationship in any of the genealogy books I have.
I think I might have to spring for the last one, after all.
Kathleen

bwdial · 02-07-2008, 09:44 PM

Don't worry... I don't even have a passport yet. Though I have an appointment to get one next Tuesday.

That trip is years off at this point, but when it happens, I plan on visiting every archive I can.
As for the D'Oyly family's spread, is it attributed to the two branches (Oxfordshire and Norfolk) or did more D'Oylys migrate from Normandy after 1066? Ever since I've started poking around the interweb, I've wondered if that could be a possibility. Everyone may be trying to get that definitive link back to Robert D'Oilli, when all the while, we descend from a cousin who was born in Normandy in 1155. Or, perhaps we were simply stablehands from the same village.
I participated in the National Geographic project a few years ago and found out my DNA markers were part of the second migration out of Africa, which went to the steppes of central Asia before making a hard left and heading into Europe. According to the map they sent me, it would have put my early ancestors somewhere in the region of Spain or France, so it makes a bit of sense. Of course, the Normans were Vikings, so maybe the stable hand scenario is the most likely.

If you don't mind my asking, how are you connected to the Dial/D'Oyley/D'Oyly mess?

I'm from the Martin > Colvill > Johnson > William C. > William Oscar > Harl (not Harold) Veston > my father > me line.

KKluger · 02-07-2008, 11:35 PM

Hi -- the line/s in Bayley's book have the family all over the place/s: Oxford; Northhampton; Ireland (for Michael, those this is one of the lines that he lost track of); Chislehampton; Pulsehil; Norfolk; London; and other places I forget at the moment (I'd have to drag out the book to look at them all). This is what I meant by saying they were "nomads" :-)

The original D'Oilli clan from France numbered a few brothers yukking it up with William. By the time they all reproduced, their were several branches of D'Oyleys.

In 1994 I went to Dublin to their national archives and spent a wonderful eight hours just cruising through the records (not looking for Dials/Doyleys at that time). Unfortunately, Ireland's early records (say, from the time Michael Doyley would have arrived) are mostly missing, due to the vast burning of Church/parish records when it was not safe to practice one's religion publicly.

My connection to "Dial" is, to wit: Edward, Edward Jr, George Washington Dial, William, John, and Ethyl Mary (my mg'm). My Dials went from Maryland to PA to Ohio, where I was eventually born. I have a ton of stuff on the Ohio Dials, courtesy of my brother who started researching graves, etc, in 1960-something. He, too, submitted his DNA and the profile came back similar to yours!

BTW - most of the archives you are interested in are online now through ancestry.co.uk and I'm in the middle of a 14-day free trial period of searching records; I'm more than a bit bleary-eyed at this point.

Happy searching,
Kathleen

20-06-2008, 05:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
bwdial New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tampa, FL... set of Teachers Gone Wild! Posts: 8	Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... ... and any others that are related. I know the D'Oyley (D'Oyly, D'Oilli, etc.) are supposed to be my ancestors, but my (scant) research has led me to wonder. I do know (or at least have read) that my ancestors came from the Oxfordshire area, but I wonder if there really is a connection. There's also evidence of Scottish ties, but I'm not really sure.

20-06-2008, 11:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... Thank you for this post -- I have wondered the exact same thing. I am trying to find proof of the marriage between d'Oyly and Hatfield so that I can understand the info uncovered so far. I wish I could help you more, but promise to share if I find something you might be interested in. KKluger
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5

21-06-2008, 01:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
bwdial New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tampa, FL... set of Teachers Gone Wild! Posts: 8	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... James H. Dial and Susannah Hatfield? James is the wild card for me. Some sources call him James H. Dial, others call him James H. D'Oyley. He is reported to have been born in Oxfordshire. I've seen a few people who try to place him with a D'Oyley clan from Shotesham, but I think people are reaching too far. It would have required two children to be born in Norfolk, then the family would have had to move to Oxford so James could be born and then back to Shotesham to have a whole bunch of more kids. That scenario just doesn't make sense to me. Have you heard of a book called History of the House of D'Oyly by William D'Oyly Bayley? I've seen that it's in the British Library and I'm thinking about purchasing a copy online.

21-06-2008, 02:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... James' marriage to Susannah is the weak link for me -- I cannot prove it (beyond the postings on LDS). SOme of the online geneaologists have a 100 year span between his birth and marriage, so that does not help things. I have never been able to document his movement from Oxon to Scotland, and I have never found iany verifiable nfo on her. Years ago I purchased Bayley's book from the British Library Archives -- it was about $140 US Dollars then, including transatlantic postage; I shudder to think what it is now. It's a very interesting read, though. The D'Oyly clan was large and did, in fact, split off and move about quite a bit; I think they were nomads. Bayley even mentioned the part of the clan that moved to Ireland, but had no further information on them. The book is quite large. I have all but one of the family history books written about the DIALs. It's $125 and I just can't pull the trigger on that yet because I've been so disappointed in the others. It's easy enough to go down to my local LDS Center and look at it on microfiche, but it's an hour's drive one-way and I just have to make the effort. If you're interested (or have it already and know it's missing vital data) the name of it is: "Burris Dial and Descendants, Ancestors, and Allied Families" http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=BURRIS+DIAL&sts=t Good luck! Kathleen
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5

27-06-2008, 03:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
bwdial New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tampa, FL... set of Teachers Gone Wild! Posts: 8	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... I think they can scan Bayley's book and send it as a PDF now. Probably a bit cheaper. I may go ahead and bite the bullet. Do you have the book Martin Dial and his Descendants?

30-06-2008, 11:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... Yes, I do have the "Martin Dial....." book and it does not shed any light on the English/Irish d'Oyly/Doyley/Dyall/Dial lines at all. The narrative just picks up from "James H Dial, son of William Doyley and Margaret Randall" and the trouble with this is, there is no such "James H" son of the above- mentioned in Bayley's history. All we really have of the English/Irish lineage, so far, is anecdotal. Just today I found another reference to "James H Dial, son of....." and the birth year given is 1638 but the marriage year to Susanna Hatfield is given as 1615 -- nice trick, eh? Kathleen
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5

01-07-2008, 03:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
bwdial New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tampa, FL... set of Teachers Gone Wild! Posts: 8	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... Hastings Harrison did a good job on this side of the pond, but you're right. Any and all data from a generation or so before Martin is just guesswork. My father has an original copy from back in the fifties and I think a copy has been willed to me by an aunt. There's a guy online from Texas who says he was given the correspondence that Harrison collected while he was researching. Apparently, Harrison's children didn't care about it, so he gave it to someone he knew did. Someday, I'm going to England to dig up the history there. I'd love to research and create a volume about our family history prior to migration to the colonies.

01-07-2008, 05:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... Before you jump the pond to research the generation-before-migration you really will want to read Bayley's "History of the House of Doyly". You will see, as have I, that the 'family' was soooooo spread out it will be nearly impossible to pick the right starting place. Not to mention that the William Doyley marriage to Margaret Randall produced no known James Henry Dial, and there you have our very dilemma. There are two Doyly families that Bayley admits not knowing anything about and I wonder if it is within one of them that the James Henry derives. Another Dial researcher feels James Henry Dial came to the States with his cousin, Henry Arthur Dial, but I can find no mention of this particular relationship in any of the genealogy books I have. I think I might have to spring for the last one, after all. Kathleen
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5

02-07-2008, 09:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
bwdial New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tampa, FL... set of Teachers Gone Wild! Posts: 8	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... Don't worry... I don't even have a passport yet. Though I have an appointment to get one next Tuesday. That trip is years off at this point, but when it happens, I plan on visiting every archive I can. As for the D'Oyly family's spread, is it attributed to the two branches (Oxfordshire and Norfolk) or did more D'Oylys migrate from Normandy after 1066? Ever since I've started poking around the interweb, I've wondered if that could be a possibility. Everyone may be trying to get that definitive link back to Robert D'Oilli, when all the while, we descend from a cousin who was born in Normandy in 1155. Or, perhaps we were simply stablehands from the same village. I participated in the National Geographic project a few years ago and found out my DNA markers were part of the second migration out of Africa, which went to the steppes of central Asia before making a hard left and heading into Europe. According to the map they sent me, it would have put my early ancestors somewhere in the region of Spain or France, so it makes a bit of sense. Of course, the Normans were Vikings, so maybe the stable hand scenario is the most likely. If you don't mind my asking, how are you connected to the Dial/D'Oyley/D'Oyly mess? I'm from the Martin > Colvill > Johnson > William C. > William Oscar > Harl (not Harold) Veston > my father > me line.

02-07-2008, 11:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Dial, Dyal, Dyall, D'Oyley, D'Oyly... Hi -- the line/s in Bayley's book have the family all over the place/s: Oxford; Northhampton; Ireland (for Michael, those this is one of the lines that he lost track of); Chislehampton; Pulsehil; Norfolk; London; and other places I forget at the moment (I'd have to drag out the book to look at them all). This is what I meant by saying they were "nomads" :-) The original D'Oilli clan from France numbered a few brothers yukking it up with William. By the time they all reproduced, their were several branches of D'Oyleys. In 1994 I went to Dublin to their national archives and spent a wonderful eight hours just cruising through the records (not looking for Dials/Doyleys at that time). Unfortunately, Ireland's early records (say, from the time Michael Doyley would have arrived) are mostly missing, due to the vast burning of Church/parish records when it was not safe to practice one's religion publicly. My connection to "Dial" is, to wit: Edward, Edward Jr, George Washington Dial, William, John, and Ethyl Mary (my mg'm). My Dials went from Maryland to PA to Ohio, where I was eventually born. I have a ton of stuff on the Ohio Dials, courtesy of my brother who started researching graves, etc, in 1960-something. He, too, submitted his DNA and the profile came back similar to yours! BTW - most of the archives you are interested in are online now through ancestry.co.uk and I'm in the middle of a 14-day free trial period of searching records; I'm more than a bit bleary-eyed at this point. Happy searching, Kathleen
KKluger New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5