Thread: Samuel Mail - RA

jaysholme · 26-08-2006, 07:25 AM

He was a sargeant in the Royal Artillery when he married Margaret Elliott in Greenwich in 1864.
Their children were:
Adelaide born 1867, Kirkee, India. Married 1886
Edgar Eber born 1870, Kirkee, India. Married 1893, d. 1915, Yarm
Rose Ameila born 1876 Sheffield, d 1906
Abner Edis born 3.4.1878, The Barracks, Smitleford Street, Coventry. Married 1906, d. 1951, Knaresborough, North Yorks
Albert E born 1882 Ireland
Lillian Maud born 1884 Thornaby, North Yorks. Married 1906 in Leeds

Adelaide married and settled in Thornaby where in 1891 Edgar & Lillian were living with her. In 1901 Albert & Rose appears instead of Edgar & Lillian
Abner only appers on the 1901 census lodging with a family in Thornaby

I can not find Samuel or Margaret on any UK census

Anybody have ideas how I can find them as a family and where

jaysholme · 25-09-2006, 07:52 PM

I have now received Samuel & Margaret's marriage certificate but unfortunately it doesn't shed any more light on the mystery. They were married at Woolwich Parish Church on 7/6/1864 and they were both single and "of age". Samuel's occupation looks like Driller

, Royal Artillery and residing at Artillery Barracks. Margaret had no occupation noted and was living in Powis Street.
Both fathers alive and were labourers.
I am assuming it will be very hard to find Samuel's army records as we don't have an actual record of regiment/battalion

Raven · 28-09-2006, 09:20 AM

Hi Jay I would try:
The National Archives

found this

Soldiers discharged 1760-1854
The documents in this range, (WO 97 ) are indexed by name on the the Catalogue (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue) and are all seen on microfilm. Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a single alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 -WO 97/6383 . These are not indexed on the Catalogue.
Soldiers discharged 1855-1872
You need to know beforehand the regiment in which your man served, to find a soldier discharged in this period. If you know where a soldier was serving at a particular time , you can try to identify his regiment from the Monthly Army Lists or from the Monthly Returns (WO 17 and WO 73 ) which show where regiments were stationed: you may also be able to find the regiment from the Medal Rolls in WO 100 . Once you know the regiment, look in the 1855-1872 section of the WO 97 class list (WO 97/1272 -WO 97/1721 ), under the appropriate regiment. Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a single alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 -WO 97/6383 .
Soldiers discharged 1873-1882
Look in the 1873-1882 section of the WO 97 class list (WO 97/1722 to WO 97/2171 ), under the appropriate branch of the army (Cavalry, Household Cavalry, Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers, Foot Guards, Infantry, Army Service Corps, Army Hospital Corps, Military Staff Corps, Rifle Brigade, Colonial Regiments (e.g. Bengal, Cape, China, Ceylon, Canada, Malta and West Indies), and miscellaneous units). Some discharge papers have been misfiled, and are now in alphabetical order in WO 97/6355 to WO 97/6383 .
Soldiers discharged 1882-1900
For this period all discharge papers were filed alphabetically, for the wholearmy (WO 97/2172 to WO 97/4231 ). Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a second alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 to WO 97/6383 . These documents are seen in the original, and are ordered on computer.
Soldiers discharged 1900-1913
For this period all discharge papers were filed alphabetically, for the whole army (WO 97/4232 to WO 97/6322 ). Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a second alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6323 to WO 97/6354 . These documents are seen in the original, and are ordered on computer.

All information is Crown Copyright of The National Archives

Marilyn · 24-04-2008, 05:49 AM

Jay,
I have been searching for information on an Edgar Myers, who appears with my great uncle, Thomas Myers, in the 1881 census. He is nowhere else to be found and I have considered that he was not my great uncle's son, but a child he took in. Edgar Myers was born in India, as was your Edgar Mail. Do you know where your Edgar was in 1881, or could he be my Edgar Myers for the purposes of the census?
Marilyn

Colinat16 · 30-06-2008, 07:34 PM

Samuel or Simeon? Samuel (1829) was 13 years older than his brother Simeon (1841), allegedly also known as Samuel. Did he use his brother's name to get in the army early, or as an older person.

It was Simeon who married Margaret Elliott in Greewich in 1864. Simeon died in Middlesborough, I believe, in 1889 age 46.

They had 7 children:

Adelaide (1867), Edgar (1870), Florence (1873), Rose (1876), Abner (1878), Albert (1881), Lillian (1884).

The first 3 were born in India, Albert in Cork, Ireland,

Edgar married twice, his first wife Jane Edmundson died in her year of marriage age 19. Edgar was a house painter in Leeds before becoming a police constable in Saltburn.

His second wife Mary Jane Heslop died 5 years after him in 1920.

jaysholme · 30-06-2008, 08:55 PM

Thanks Colinat16
You given me some info I didn't have. Where did you find it or are you connected to the family?

Colinat16 · 30-06-2008, 09:58 PM

Dear Jay

I am associated with Marilyn, some of the info I found and some she found. We think that Edgar Myers of census 1881 was in fact Edgar Mail. There are so many similarities, and at this time Edgar Mail can not be found and Edgar Myers cannot be found at any other time.

Edgar Mail was a house painter, as was Thomas Myers.

Thomas Myers lived in or near Hunslet, where Adelaide met her husband.

So we are related to Thomas Myers, but not Edgar Mail ! We are actually descended from James Myers, who was Thomas's brother.

We would love to confirm Edgar Mail was living with Thomas Myers at the age of 7 - 17, at the time Samuel Mail went to Ireland. Samuel or Simeon and his wife Margaret are never found in an English census.

I hope one day to visit the National Archives and find some notes on Samuel, or Simeon. I tried to down load the marriage cert, but failed.

I have the birth cert of Edgar in India, and Lillian in Thornaby. and the marriage cert of Edgar and Jane in 1893, which you can have copies of if I can manage to attach them. If not, please tell me your email address and I will forward them to you.

Regards

Colin at 16

Colinat16 · 01-07-2008, 03:28 PM

Dear Jay

Hope you are well. If possible could you email me a copy of Sam Mail's marriage cert, to colin.horsfield@dsl.pipex.com.

I cannot down load it from your message. Hope you can see the 3 documents I posted, let me know if I should send a copy.

PS On the birth cert of Edgar, you will see Samuel is 1282 Driver ..., which may solve the query of "driller" on his marriage cert.

Regards

Colin

26-08-2006, 07:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
jaysholme New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 6	Samuel Mail - RA He was a sargeant in the Royal Artillery when he married Margaret Elliott in Greenwich in 1864. Their children were: Adelaide born 1867, Kirkee, India. Married 1886 Edgar Eber born 1870, Kirkee, India. Married 1893, d. 1915, Yarm Rose Ameila born 1876 Sheffield, d 1906 Abner Edis born 3.4.1878, The Barracks, Smitleford Street, Coventry. Married 1906, d. 1951, Knaresborough, North Yorks Albert E born 1882 Ireland Lillian Maud born 1884 Thornaby, North Yorks. Married 1906 in Leeds Adelaide married and settled in Thornaby where in 1891 Edgar & Lillian were living with her. In 1901 Albert & Rose appears instead of Edgar & Lillian Abner only appers on the 1901 census lodging with a family in Thornaby I can not find Samuel or Margaret on any UK census Anybody have ideas how I can find them as a family and where

28-09-2006, 09:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
Raven Ancestry Aid Staff Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sunny Stonehaven Posts: 2,120 Total Awards: 5	Re: Samuel Mail - RA Hi Jay I would try: The National Archives found this Soldiers discharged 1760-1854 The documents in this range, (WO 97 ) are indexed by name on the the Catalogue (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue) and are all seen on microfilm. Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a single alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 -WO 97/6383 . These are not indexed on the Catalogue. Soldiers discharged 1855-1872 You need to know beforehand the regiment in which your man served, to find a soldier discharged in this period. If you know where a soldier was serving at a particular time , you can try to identify his regiment from the Monthly Army Lists or from the Monthly Returns (WO 17 and WO 73 ) which show where regiments were stationed: you may also be able to find the regiment from the Medal Rolls in WO 100 . Once you know the regiment, look in the 1855-1872 section of the WO 97 class list (WO 97/1272 -WO 97/1721 ), under the appropriate regiment. Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a single alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 -WO 97/6383 . Soldiers discharged 1873-1882 Look in the 1873-1882 section of the WO 97 class list (WO 97/1722 to WO 97/2171 ), under the appropriate branch of the army (Cavalry, Household Cavalry, Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers, Foot Guards, Infantry, Army Service Corps, Army Hospital Corps, Military Staff Corps, Rifle Brigade, Colonial Regiments (e.g. Bengal, Cape, China, Ceylon, Canada, Malta and West Indies), and miscellaneous units). Some discharge papers have been misfiled, and are now in alphabetical order in WO 97/6355 to WO 97/6383 . Soldiers discharged 1882-1900 For this period all discharge papers were filed alphabetically, for the wholearmy (WO 97/2172 to WO 97/4231 ). Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a second alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 to WO 97/6383 . These documents are seen in the original, and are ordered on computer. Soldiers discharged 1900-1913 For this period all discharge papers were filed alphabetically, for the whole army (WO 97/4232 to WO 97/6322 ). Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a second alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6323 to WO 97/6354 . These documents are seen in the original, and are ordered on computer. All information is Crown Copyright of The National Archives
	Raven.. researching: Matchett (Ayrshire, Dundee),McFarland (Co derry NI) Dick, Ewing, Nairn, Young (Ayrshire) Koehler (East Prussia), Russell( Peebleshire)

24-04-2008, 05:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Marilyn New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2	Re: Samuel Mail - RA Jay, I have been searching for information on an Edgar Myers, who appears with my great uncle, Thomas Myers, in the 1881 census. He is nowhere else to be found and I have considered that he was not my great uncle's son, but a child he took in. Edgar Myers was born in India, as was your Edgar Mail. Do you know where your Edgar was in 1881, or could he be my Edgar Myers for the purposes of the census? Marilyn
Marilyn New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2

30-06-2008, 07:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
Colinat16 New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3	Re: Samuel or Simeon Mail - Royal Artillery Samuel or Simeon? Samuel (1829) was 13 years older than his brother Simeon (1841), allegedly also known as Samuel. Did he use his brother's name to get in the army early, or as an older person. It was Simeon who married Margaret Elliott in Greewich in 1864. Simeon died in Middlesborough, I believe, in 1889 age 46. They had 7 children: Adelaide (1867), Edgar (1870), Florence (1873), Rose (1876), Abner (1878), Albert (1881), Lillian (1884). The first 3 were born in India, Albert in Cork, Ireland, Edgar married twice, his first wife Jane Edmundson died in her year of marriage age 19. Edgar was a house painter in Leeds before becoming a police constable in Saltburn. His second wife Mary Jane Heslop died 5 years after him in 1920.
Colinat16 New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3

30-06-2008, 08:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
jaysholme New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 6	Re: Samuel Mail - RA Thanks Colinat16 You given me some info I didn't have. Where did you find it or are you connected to the family?
	Volunteer researcher for the blind

01-07-2008, 03:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Colinat16 New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3	Re: Samuel Mail - RA Dear Jay Hope you are well. If possible could you email me a copy of Sam Mail's marriage cert, to colin.horsfield@dsl.pipex.com. I cannot down load it from your message. Hope you can see the 3 documents I posted, let me know if I should send a copy. PS On the birth cert of Edgar, you will see Samuel is 1282 Driver ..., which may solve the query of "driller" on his marriage cert. Regards Colin
Colinat16 New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3