Thread: Brown Family Mystery

Hi All

Need to pick your brains!

For a long time I have wanted to trace my dad's family. My dad lost his mother when he was only 12. His house was bombed on 29th November 1940 and his mother Sarah Ann Brown died. He has always maintained that his dad died in the house, but I can find no record of him dying at the same time. I did however, find a record of another person dying in the house, who appears to be the next door neighbour. I always guessed that his father would have served in WW2. I have records of his enlistment into the Royal Marine Engineers in 1918 when he was only 18. Whether he served in WW2 I don't know.

I only know that he never died in the house in 1940 and have no idea of his whereabouts at the time or since.

My dad had a sister called Violet Ivy Irene Cooper born in 1922 before Sarah married. She died as Violet Singleton about 5 years ago.

I have recently spoken with my cousin (her daughter) to ask if she has any more info. She informed me that on her mother's birth certificate no father is named. This would lead me to believe that her and my dad had different fathers. She also said that her mother refused to talk about her childhood, other than to say that her own mother didn't have a good relationship with her and that she was brought up by her nan. She also says she had two brothers.

My dad has always said that he had an older brother, but I can't find any trace of him. As he could still be alive, I will not mention his name here unless it is ok.

My cousin said to me that she has always thought it was as though her mother had NO past and I know she would also be interested in finding out more. The only link to the past that my dad has is a crumpled (and much treasured photo of his mum) and a picture of his brother in army uniform. His brother looked a lot like my dad. My dad says it is his brother, but it could have been his dad.
When my dad signed up for National Service he named his brother as next of kin.

My dad told me his father was Bert Arthur William Brown, but his name was Bertie Robert Brown. He married Sarah Ann Cooper in Brentford in 1923.

I'd love to find out what happened to my grandfather so that I can fill in some of the gaps in my dad's history. I have bits and pieces of further info if needed, but I can't ask my dad questions at the moment as he is going into hospital soon and I can't bother him. His memories are sketchy anyway.

If anybody is interested in taking this on, I would be very grateful.

Julie

Hi again blueangel,
Just to tell you about the Brentford site Brentford High Street: a history of people and properties from 1840 for local and family historians.
You might find it interesting. Perhaps someone involved in the project can give you some help/information.
And Bertie was Bertie R BROWN and married Sarah Ann Cooper in Brentford oct Nov Dec 1923 3a, 363(another cert you may have to buy sometiime or other) I do know a bomb fell on Brentford the last week of Nov 1940 as mothers and babies were killed in the West Middlesex Hospital along the Twickenham Rd. (MY mother was booked to have her baby there (26th Nov) but she had watched bombs fall in the late summer and decided to move away for a while).My father was born in Brentford 1906 and grew up there.
Do you have the address in Brentford where the bomb fell on 29th Dec?

Do you know if Sarah Ann had two brothers - one called Frank Edward baptised 1901 and the other Lionel Frederick baptised 1904?

Hi Lola

Yes, the address for the bomb was 3 Gravel Road, Twickenham.

Julie

My sister was born in West Middlesex hospital!

Sorry, just seen your message. No, I know nothing about Sarah or Bertie. Groping in the dark on this one.

My dad was injured when the bomb fell and was hospitalised for some time after and required surgery. He doesn't really want to remember. I can't say I blame him!

There is a birth registration for March qr 1900 for a Bertie Robert Brown Brentford 3a 180 perhaps if you send for his certificate too you will get further back with his parents. How about local newspaper archives? I would have thought they would have some information on who was killed in a bomb blast. No please do not mention anyone you think may still be alive you may pm someone with his name and any details you have. Where have you looked for info? and also what certs do you have or have access to?

On A******y there is there is a Bertie Robert Brown in a Morris family tree all details seem to fit. Do you have any census details - he will be on the 1901 and 1911 census. If you do not have access to the census details I am sure someone will look for you.

Here is the family on 1901 living in Acton Middlesex
William Browm 32 met policeman born Wymondham Norfolk
Alice 30 wife born Kingston
Willy 8 Ponders End
Ivy 6 same
Charlie 4 Twickenham
BERTIE 1 born Acton
Annie wid 29 born Hatfield herts
Charlie 4 Norwood Middx and John 2 born Acton
(All surnamed Brown and living at 40 Berrymede Rd Acton
RG13, 1204/107/page30

Since Bertie's father was in the Met you may get help from this site www.historybytheyard.co.uk
My great grandfather was also in the Met and living in that area in 1901 though he was some years older than your Bertie's father.
The national archives has police records.
I cannot find the family on 1911. Maybe someone else will find them for you.

Hi Lola

Originally Posted by Lola5

Since Bertie's father was in the Met you may get help from this site www.historybytheyard.co.uk
The national archives has police records.
I cannot find the family on 1911. Maybe someone else will find them for you.

I am really most interested at this stage in finding out when Bertie died. Is is possible to find out if he served in WW2. It would appear that he didn't die in WW2. I found one Bertie but he was too young.


My dad was effectively orphaned after the bomb although his dad wasn't in the house. Where was he? If he was just away from the house, surely he would have had some contact with his children afterwards. If he was in WW2 and survived, surely he would have wanted to see his children when he was discharged.


Any ideas on this mystery. Also it would be useful to know who Violet's grandmother was. My cousin mentioned the name Elsie, but she wasn't sure.


Thanks for that, I will check out the link.


Julie

Again... the question of certificates arieses: the marriage cert of Bertie and Sarah will give you both father's names.
There is a sarah Ann Cooper born Brentford in April 1902.
Her birth cert will give you her parents' names and therefore "Nan's" name because she would have been Nan to all Sarah's children including Violet Ivy Irene born April May June 1922. Brentford.
Unfortunately unless we are lucky enough to find christenings we have to get the certs to be sure we have the right names and relationships.

If Berte was injured in the bomb of 1840 then he might have had injuries that made him unfit for further service. He may have gone to a local hospital/asylum?
There are several possibilities why he would not be in contact with family.
Have you looked on any of the ww2 war forums or on the national Archives site?
Who took care of the children after Sarah's death?

A**** record Bertie Robert Brown. Born Acton 6 feb 1900.
Signed on 16 March 1918 age 18yrs i month and ten days. R M Engineers.
Transferred to Charlton.
Posted to Kingston On Thames 2. 06 1919.(Just3days there.... time to meet Sarah?)
Embarked Tilbury for Murmansk.
Evacuated from Murmansk
Discharged 28 oct 1919 unfit Next of Kin Alice E Brown 7 Hamilton Rd Twickenham.


Might he have been a prisoner of War in ww2?
Do you know his army number?
There is a Bertie Brown of Royal Engineers who was taken prisoner and held in Stalag V11-A.