Thread: help to find my grandfather Henry Simmons

Hi everyone

I am new here and wonder if anybody can help with my brickwall problem.

My Mum has been searching for information on her father Henry Simmons for many years on and off. She knew her father, but has been unable to locate a birth certificate for him.

His name was Henry Simmons and he died on 14th March 1955 aged 66. His birthday was 16th June but my mum is unsure of the year. He married my Grandmother Annie Elizabeth Wraight on 13th April 1918 in Faversham, Kent. (All of this is fact - my mum has original certs)

We have been unable to find a birth certificate for him though. My mum and sister went to the public records office some years ago and looked for any record for him, unsuccessfully. They also paid for a search, but nothing came up.

His mother's name (at the time of her death) was Florence Henrietta Hammond). She died on 10th
July 1940 in Bromley by Bow aged 82. (this is fact as my mum has the death cert)

It would appear that she married Edward Hammond in 1928 and at the time of this marriage her surname was Simmons. However, I have been unable to trace any marriage records to match up.

I have found census records for a Florence Simmons, living with Albert James Simmons (husband) and 4 children in Mile End Old Town in 1901, Henry being the eldest. I am assuming that I have the right person and I think her maiden name was Arminger. I am not sure of any of this though and could do with some advice.

If anybody could help with this I would be most grateful.

I don't know where to look next. I do have more info, but can't list it all here as it would be so long nobody would want to read it!

Julie

Hello

Thanks for replying so quickly!

Henry didn't have a middle name as far as we know. My aunt told me that Henry was conceived while Florence was in service. I don't know where, but assume London as all that side of the family came from the East End of London.

He had an older brother called Thomas Owen (but I think my aunt was wrong with that info) and he was called David Owen. She is 89 and I think some of the information is a little confused so bear with me. For some reason when my mum was doing her research (she didn't get very far) she had noted down the name David Owen as her father's brother.

There was another brother called William (my auntie called him uncle Bill) and she remembers him as he lived next door to them in Bethnal Green when she was a child.

The whole Florence Arminger thing came about because I checked all the Florence Henriettas born in 1858/59 in London and she kept jumping off the page at me! Sounds silly, I know but if you follow it through it all seems to fit.

Also (my assumption) is that David Owen is David Owen Arminger born in 1879 in Shoreditch - I think he could possibly have been born in the workhouse there. Later on he seems to become just David Owen - I have no idea why.

Henry was in WW1, but he was already a soldier. He originially enlisted in September 1906 at age 17 and 3 months which makes his birth in 1889.

The problem is that I don't think he was born with the surname Simmons and have no idea what name he may have been registered with.

If Florence Arminger wasn't his mother then I have no idea what to do next. On the 1891 census Florence has 2 sons with her - David 11 and Henry 2. But there doesn't seem to be a birth record for Henry Arminger either. She states that Henry was born in St. George in the East. I don't know how accurate that is. She states that David was born in Hoxton.

There is a 1901 and 1911 census for the Simmons family in London.

On the marriage cert for Henry and Annie his father is listed as Albert Alfred Simmons occ Private. From the 1901 census I would assume this is his brother not his father.

I hope this isn't too muddly. I typed it as I was thinking of it - if you know what I mean. I was trying not to forget anything.

Thanks again for trying to help.

Julie

Originally Posted by Lola5

Hallo blueangel63,

The Florence Simmons on the 1901 with albert J Simmons and children RG13/337/38/68 may well be the Florence Arminger Widow, aged 32,we see on 1891 with two children, David 11 and HENRY 2 and supposed sister in law Minnie with her two children....BUT?

There were four Arminger daughters all baptised same day 25 June 1865 . at St Pancras, All daughters of Henry Turner? Arminger and Emma Elizabeth of alma place St. pancras and Florence was christened as Floria Henrietta and was born 20 Nov 1858.

I believe that she wasn't a widow, but was unmarried and put on the census that she was a widow for appearances. I think Minnie was her younger sister.

Another reason why I think I have the right census records in if you look at the address 6 Park Road - the next door neighbour is called Edward Hammond and he was a carpenter. My mum told me he was a carpenter. I don't believe that was just a coincidence!

Julie

Hello Lola

I keep trying to reply and you keep adding things! You do work fast!

Originally Posted by Lola5

Hi,

Have you seen the 1911 census. Does it say how long they had been married.
?

On the 1911 census is says completed years of marriage = 24. Number of children born alive to present marriage = 4. Number still living = 3.

I have not found any record of a marriage though.

Julie

Hi Lola

Originally Posted by Lola5

Hi,

I have the baptisms of the girls and marriage of Emma and Henry if you do not already have it.

That would be great - Thank You!

Julie

well this looks like arthur james simmons death which would tie in ok with a remarriage for florence

Albert J Simmons

abt 1861

Oct-Nov-Dec 1921

60

Bethnal Green

London

1c

168

there are these baptisms


Name: Albert Alfred Simmons
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1895
Baptism Date: 4 Nov 1895
Father's Name: Albert James Simmons
Mother's Name: Florence Henrietta Simmons
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Luke
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers


Name: George Alexander Simmons
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1900
Baptism Date: 26 Mar 1900
Father's Name: Albert James Simmons
Mother's Name: Florence Simmons
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Luke
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

which fit in with the 1901 census