Thread: MATHER, Ellen Hindley 1818 - Who are her parents?

For a couple of years now I’ve been ‘claiming’ the wrong ancestry and I need some help, please. It concerns Ellen MATHER. The part of my ancestry which is correct goes like this:



Jane MATHER (my gt.gm) b.Q3 1838 in Hindley. On 7 April 1861 she is given as 22 years old on census. By time of marriage she is 23. Therefore, her birth must be the one for Sep quarter 1838 as this fits the dates.Ref:21/130

Marriage: 20 Oct 1861 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Roger Gregory - 20 Collier Bachelor of Castle Hill
Jane Mather - 23 Mule Piecer Spinster of Mill Lane
Groom's Father: James Gregory, Labourer
Witness: Richard Gregory; Mary Molineux, (X)
Married by Banns by: P. Jones, Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1851 - 1866, Page 156, Entry 311
Source: LDS Film 9375



In 1851 HO 107/2200 237/43. crown copyright in care of TNA. she is with her unmarried mother, Ellen, and her 2 siblings James b.Q4 1840 and John b.1843 as well as Ellen’s sister Mary. Ellen’s age is given as 33 and Mary is 21. All born Hindley except Ellen whose birthplace was written as Hindley then crossed out and replaced with Darwen. They are living at Burracks, Hindley. All of that I accept.
In 1861 Ellen’s age is 43 and she has now married Thomas Hodkinson and living at Mill Lane, Hindley.
Marriage: 8 Feb 1859 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hodkinson - (X), 43 Silk-weaver Bachelor of Castle Hill
Ellen Mather - (X), 41 Silk-weaver Spinster of Castle Hill
Groom's Father: John Hodkinson, Weaver
Bride's Father: James Mather, Silk Weaver
Witness: John Hayes; Martha Hayes
Married by Banns by: P. Jones, Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1851 - 1866, Page 96, Entry 191
Source: LDS Film 93751



Her age as 41 when she married in Feb 1859 would mean that she could have been born any time between Feb 1818 and Feb 1819. However, in 1861 she is shown as 43 (which matches the marriage and 1851 info) census taken 7^th April. But in 1871 taken 2^nd April, she is shown as 52. And in 1881 she is giving herself as 53, taken on 3^rd April. Not sure if any of that is significant.


She says in 1851 she was born Darwen, in 1861 born Hindley, in 1871 Over Darwen, and in 1881 it is Abram.....very confusing especially when you don’t know the area. 1891 at age 72 it is back to Darwen and she still has her unmarried son Joseph living with her.


Ellen says that her father is James Mather, Silk Weaver on her marriage papers. Would that mean he was still alive on that date? If so, I can’t find him in 1851 with the Ann who would seem to be Ellen’s mother on the 1841 census, living in Rotten Row, Hindley. The 3 youngest children belong to Ellen.

1841 census detail


Ann Mather 40 Weaver cotton N
Ellen Mather 20 Silk Weaver Y
Ann Do 20 Do Y
Sarah Do 14 Y
Mary Do 11 Y
Elizabeth Do 8 Y
Jane Do 3 Y
James Do 10 mths Y
Joseph Do 6 wks

crown copyright in care of TNA

Before I found the marriage of Ellen on the LancsOPC site, I had thought that she was the daughter of George MATHER and Ellen FINCH. But finding the marriage detail, together with the 1841 census detail I know that I was wrong.
If there is someone who can help me sort this out I would really appreciate it. There is no birth for Ellen on LancsOPC as there is a gap in the records at that point.

Any help or advice will be gratefully accepted.
OzzieJoan

Hi OzzieJoan!

Have you looked on Lancashire BMD? I have found a couple of things that you may already have!

Jane MATHER born Hindley 1837 Mother's maiden name MATHER Ref: HNDL/1/70 - if you get the certificate it may give you more information on her father

James MATHER born Hindley 1840 Mother's maiden name MATHER Ref: HNDL/2/499

Joseph MATHER born Hindley 1841 Mother's maiden name MATHER Ref: HNDL/3/240

Deaths for Ann Mather
1859 Hindley aged 75 HNDL/15/13
1847 UpHolland aged 78 UPHL/2/269
1850 Hindley aged 53 HNDL/8/193

Most likely is the 1850 given that she gave her age as 40 on 1841 cencus - rmember the ages were rounded up and down on the 1841 cencus. If you did get this cert it should show her husband and also who reported her death.

Will have another look around later this evening!

Rubina

Originally Posted by Maid of Kent

Ellen says that her father is James Mather, Silk Weaver on her marriage papers. Would that mean he was still alive on that date?OzzieJoan

It would normally say if the parent was deceased on a marriage cert. However there are two things I suggest that you do:

1. Order the marriage cert for Ellen as the only information you seem to have is from Family Search online and may not contain everything. The referance for her marriage on Lancashire BMD is (C15/2/191)

2. Check out her Mum's death cert (as previously posted) which will hopefully give her Mother Ann's husbands name and, therefore, Ellen's Father's name.

If none of this is conclusive, you may need to consider that her Mother didn't marry and she made the name up on her marriage cert to "save face". However, getting hold of the original marriage cert and her Mother's death cert may prove otherwise!

Link for Lancashire BMD: http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

And another thing....!

I haven't been able to find a James MATHER death from 1810 to 1860 in the Wigan area. Perhaps you should post this as a new thread to encorage other members to search?

Hi there!

I think what you would really like to know is the name of Ellen's father. Given this, even if the Ann Mather marrying a Thomas Anderton were correct for YOUR Ann Mather this would still not tell you who Ellen's Father was! The James Mather death you have found could well be Ann's husband. (I wonder why my search didn't throw this up! Perhpas I just missed it!) Re your question, the fact that this was Wigan and not Hindley doesn't matter. Hindley is an area of Wigan whereas Wigan is the Registration District so it doesn't mean he was in an institution simply that his death was registered in that district.

If I were you (and I am aware of the costs of these things!) I would be tempted to get this James Mather death cert and if this is inconclusive get Ann Mather's death cert.

Try this site out and see if you can find any answers re Ellen's marriage before ordering the certs!

Marriage Locator for marriages 1837-1911 in England and Wales


Rubina