Thread: How to find information that seems to be missing

Hi all I've 2 problems I could do with some help with, either trying to find the answer or narrowing it down to a short list.
The first problem:
I'm trying to narrow down the search for Mary Ellen Williams. This person is a mystery to be honest. My grandmother didn't talk much about her (she didn't like her) and my grandfather died when my mother was 17 so can't ask him. Mary Ellen died a few months before my mother was born so can't ask her, my aunt remembers her but she was only a little girl so doesn't remember much apart from 'she was old' and other general things like that.
The information I do know is:
Mary Ellen Williams was born in Flintshire, Wales. She was born 1877 (ish) If I use her 1911 census age and her age at marriage it's 1877, but using death records it's 1875. Theres quite a few of them during those 2 years with the same name and same fathers name.
She married James Kenyon in 1908 in Newton-le-Willows, Lancashire.
She was buried 1st October 1947 and her age is 72 on the records.
She was previously married as on the marriage certificate her status is widow and her name is Mary Ellen Jones. Her father is listed on the marriage certificate as Thomas Williams. No mention of the deceased husbands name.
There is a M. Jones on the 1901 census in Church Street, Newton in Makerfield. She is a widow aged 26 and a Housemaid, domestic and comes from Flints, Flint. Using a guess this is possibly her.
I know she must have at one time been in service as after her husband died she took in laundry for the houses - the local rich people (told to my mother by someone who knew her when she was alive).
The family guess is she either ran away from wales and didn't want to be found and said she was a widow, she moved with her family from Wales and married and was widowed in Lancashire, She was widowed in Wales and moved to Lancashire - this could be the case as there is a family link to Holywell with the Kenyons as one family member had a pub there and the only birth records I can find are from around that local area.


The 2nd problem is a birth record I can't find - well I might have found but - here's the info:
Benjamin Kenyon born 1841 - 1843.
He appears on the 1851 census age 9 living with his grandparents Thomas and Jane Kenyon in Newton in Mackerfield (now Newton-le-Willows), every census until his grandmother dies he is listed as living with them (once he was married he still lived with his grandmother).
I've searched parish records as best I can (I don't live in the local area so it's not particularly easy) and can't find a listing, but on familysearch I've found a record of a Benjamin Kenyon born and baptised in 1841 in Winwick (which is a couple of fields walk from where they lived) with his mother being Anne Kenyon no fathers name. There is an Ann Kenyon in the 1841 census living with Thomas and Jane.
Benjamin married Jane in 1871 which ties in with the census for 1871 as she is listed on the household (also on the 1911 census shes filled in the years married part which also ties in with 1871) but - his father is listed as James Forshaw on the record and his birth is listed as 1843 and her father is listed as William Pimblett, I've found a record for an Ann Kenyon marrying a James Forshaw in 1844 but don't know if this is the same Ann.
Benjamin died in 1882 and is buried in St Peters church, Newton-le-Willows and his age is said to be 41. This ties in with the birth record and the first appearance of him in the census returns.

Several family members have tried to research the family tree but have given up because of lack of information, I'd really like to try and untangle the mysteries around these 2 people so any information, advice or help would be welcomed. Anything at all even if it's give up and leave them a mystery. I need to put these people to bed, I've got death records for both, possible marriage records for both, but the birth information is proving hard to find.

What was Thomas WILLIAMS occupation on the marriage certificate?

Thanks Elsabels,
I've looked at the original 1841 census and Benjamin isn't listed on there but Ann is. That's where the confusion has been, was it the right record, lol. Thanks lots I can tell my mum and sort this bit out, heehee. Just got to narrow Mary Ellen down now, I think she's about 1 of 3 or 4, just got to keep checking through Welsh census records to see if I can rule any out. Doesn't help that I'm looking for Williams and Jones surnames, why couldn't she have had a different surname that was easy to find. My mum calls her 'the enigma' maybe she's right.

I'll have to ask my mum, but I think it was labourer, which I know covers a range of skills and jobs.

Hello

Doesn't help that I'm looking for Williams and Jones surnames

You said it, I did refrain from passing that comment!

BUT you do have a timeframe, so 1895 - 31 March 1901 assume she was b 1875 - 1877, then you could be looking aged 20 on marriage, she was a widow on the1901 census

Have you thought of looking for the death of Mr JONES instead on the basis that you are looking Lancashire where the bname doesnot appear as frequently!

Thanks Elsabels. I did try looking at the deaths, so many of them. I've found 2 census records for 1881 a Mary Ellen Williams with a Thomas Williams as father so hopefully she's one of those. I'm going to try and see if I can follow the families round and see if Mary disappears or is still on the 1901 census for those 2.