James Munday

**snowshoe** · 08-02-2011 09:54 PM

Hi,
Have a brick wall that I can't break down. My 2x great grandfather was James Munday. He married a widow in 1872 after the birth of their first child in 1871.
They were not living together on the 1871 census, the soon to be wife was living with her father. On the marriage certificate it gives James's father as Richard Munday. Both James and Richard were listed as labourers. By 1881 James had died. I do not know where or when he was born as I can't identify him on the 1871 census and of course he isn't on the 1881 census. He was listed as a batchelor on the marriage certificate. They had three boys the last being born in 1877 and I have just found his baptism which was on 13th July 1879. This lists the parents names. Question 1: If James had died before his son's baptism would he be listed as deceased or not on the baptism record?
Question 2: Assuming he was still alive at the baptism I can only find one possible entry for his death, that being June 1880 in Steyning. They lived in St Pancras at the time, so would that have been too far away for him to be? I live in Aus so not sure where places are exactly. Thanks Debbie

**noggin28** · 16-03-2011 02:52 PM

Hi Snowshoe.

St Pancras to Steyning is about 50/60 miles, Steyning is in Sussex not far from Brighton. When I am unsure of a place I google map the place name.

It would not be impossible for him to die there. Where was his wife and children in 1881?

Can you give us the James dob and the names of his Children and Wife (dob.s) and we may be able to help you find the family

**noggin28** · 16-03-2011 04:39 PM

Is this your family?

1881 England Census
Name: Jemima Munday Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head Gender: Female
Where born: Dalworth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Pancras County/Island: London Country: England
Street Address: 89 Castle Road
Condition as to marriage: widow
Occupation: Laundress (W)
Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 18a
Jemima Munday 39
William Spankhurst 16 Elizabeth Spankhurst 12
James Munday 8 John Munday 6 Charles Munday 3

**noggin28** · 16-03-2011 04:44 PM

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
Name: James Munday
Year of Registration: 1872
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b Page: 152

Spouse: Jemima Spankhurst

How old was James when he married (on marriage cert)

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Jemima Spankhurst
Spouse Name: James Munday
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 26 Mar 1872
Parish: St Pancras Old Church
County: Middlesex
Borough: Camden
Father Name: William Howard
Spouse Father Name: Richard Munday

**noggin28** · 16-03-2011 05:20 PM

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Alfred Spankhurst
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Spouse Name: Jemima Howard
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1860
Parish: St Mary, Newington
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: George Spankhurst
Spouse Father Name: William Howard
address both 13 Eltham Street
groom and both father's occ Lath renders.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Alfred Spankhurst
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Year of Registration: 1869
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 30
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b Page: 133

**noggin28** · 16-03-2011 05:38 PM

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: James Richard Monday
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1873
Baptism Date: 26 Jan 1873
Father's Name: James Monday occ brewer
Mother's Name: Jemima Monday
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden
Address 89 Castle Road

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: John Henry Munday
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1879
Baptism Date: 13 Jul 1879
Father's Name: James Munday occ drayman
Mother's Name: Jemima Munday
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: John Henry Munday
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1893
Burial Date: 14 Feb 1893
Age: 15 Years 6 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt Sep 1877
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden
County: London
address 89 Castle Street

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: John Henry Munday
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Year of Registration: 1893
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 15
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b Page: 29

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Charles Thomas Manday
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875
Baptism Date: 29 Aug 1875
Father's Name: James Munday occ Brewers drayman
Mother's Name: Jemima Munday
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Charles Thomas Munday
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 211

**Elsabels** · 16-03-2011 06:03 PM

Hello
Living in Australia no problem, try the directions feature on maps.google.co.uk.

If you get the 'little man' move him and you will be able to see what the area is like now!

**noggin28** · 16-03-2011 06:26 PM

Based on John Henry's birth in post above this could be James the father's burial:

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: James Munday
Record Type: Death
Estimated Death Date: 2 Apr 1878 age 32
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: James Munday
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1878
Burial Date: 6 Apr 1878
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex
stated died in workhouse of ------? Pneumonia

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: James Munday
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 32
District: Marylebone (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 389

**snowshoe** · 17-03-2011 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by noggin28

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: James Richard Monday
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1873
Baptism Date: 26 Jan 1873
Father's Name: James Monday occ brewer
Mother's Name: Jemima Monday
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden
Address 89 Castle Road

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: John Henry Munday
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1879
Baptism Date: 13 Jul 1879
Father's Name: James Munday occ drayman
Mother's Name: Jemima Munday
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: John Henry Munday
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1893
Burial Date: 14 Feb 1893
Age: 15 Years 6 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt Sep 1877
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden
County: London
address 89 Castle Street

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: John Henry Munday
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Year of Registration: 1893
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 15
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b Page: 29

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Charles Thomas Manday
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875
Baptism Date: 29 Aug 1875
Father's Name: James Munday occ Brewers drayman
Mother's Name: Jemima Munday
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Charles Thomas Munday
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 211

I haven't done this before so hopefully I am replying in the right section.
I have James and Jemima's marriage certificate but all it says in the ages is "of age" which isn't much help.
It also says James was not married before Jemima. His father's name is listed as Richard on this certificate.
Apart from that I cannot be sure if James appears on the 1871 census. I have just found the baptism certificate for John Henry Munday. He was baptised in 1879 and the father is listed as James Munday.
It doesn't list James as deceased though he may have been. I bought the death certificate for Steyning and of course it wasn't him. I will find the other three certificates I have bought so I will have a final attempt to find his death. If one of the new certificates is correct it means he died before the baby's baptism.
The only other outcome is that James left the family and Jemima called herself a widow.
Thanks to everyone for your help.

**snowshoe** · 17-03-2011 01:46 AM

Another thing. James Richard Munday who was baptised in 1873 was actually born in 1871. He was born before his parent's marriage in 1872.

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