Thread: James Ashby

Hi,

My gt gt gt grandfather James Ashby appears in the 1841 and 1851 censuses living in Military Road, Canterbury, Kent. The 1851 census records him as being born in the village of Frant, Sussex, in 1787. The two censuses show that he had 4 children, all born in Tonbridge in the 1820's and 1830's. His occupation is given as cutler. His wife is named variously as Jane, Mary and Mary Jane. The 1851 census gives her birthplace as Shoreditch in Middlesex.

(1) The Frant parish register has a James Ashby b. 1785, but they also have one who dies in 1787. The Sussex coroner records his death as by drowning. The register gives his parents as James and Sarah. The registers also record the birth of two daughters called Frances born to this couple in 1788 and 1789, but record no death of a Frances Ashby. My guess is that one of these Frances could be a second James, since there is a record of a James dying, although to be fair no age for either the drowning or the burial are given. To add further confusion, the Frant Bishop's Transcripts for 1789 are exactly the same as those for 1788! I'd like some advice as to any further digging that might be done to unravel this tangle.

(2) I have been unable to find any means of identifying Thomas and Sarah. There are a number of Thomas Ashbys who might qualify. One Thomas lived in Lamberhurst, Kent (the next village down the road) at the time, and had a wife called Sarah (nee Sayers), but the births that occured in Lamberhurst to this couple make it unlikely that they also had a number of children born in Frant in the same period. There is also a Thomas Ashby living in Frant at the time who was the miller at Bartley Mill. He had married a Sarah (nee Dench), but she had died earlier than any of the children born in Frant were born. This Thomas remarried while in Frant to a woman called Elizabeth Hoad. I think that he died in 1819 and that both he and Elizabeth are buried together in Frant. There is a third Thomas, born in Wadhurst at about the right time, but there is no record of him ever marrying. I've been able to find no record of a marriage between Thomas and Sarah in Sussex. I've found a lot of confusion over the identity of the various Thomas and Sarahs on several genealogy websites. I'd love to be able to definitely identify who this Thomas and Sarah were, because there are a lot of Ashbys in the area that they might be related to.

(3) I want to fill in the gap between James' presumed birth in 1788/9 and his appearance in the census in 1841. I've not been able to find his marriage to Mary Jane. His children appear in a parish register for Tonbridge according to ancestry.com. There is a marriage between a James Ashby and a Mary Kemp at Shoreditch in 1828 that might qualify, but his first son was born in Tonbridge in 1827. As a cutler James would presumably have been apprenticed somewhere. My guess is that he was employed by the cavalry barracks located in Military Road, and that he was apprenticed in Tonbridge, which had a fine steel industry up until the 19th century. What rae the chances of finding any records to back up these guesses?

I don't know whether this qualifies as one brickwall or several, but...

Derrick

Hello

There are numerous Trees on a******, all are linked to the 1851 census but nothing seems to flow on them.

CCan you let us have the reference of the census you have your grandfather on,

Are these the census refernece for your gt grandfather

1841 H107 486 16 if so the eldest child is born 1824, then there is a gap of 6 years, could this indicate a 2nd marriage?

1851 H107 1624 157 18 :

Well, gt gt gt grandfather: James 1841 census reference: HO107-486-16-23-24-13-8. 1851: HO107-1624-157-18
Grandfather is James Henry William - 1901 census: RG13-665-61-4

I suppose a second marriage is possible - but while the mother of Charles is given as Jane, and of Henry and Thomas as Mary Jane, the same thing happens in the census - she is Jane in 1841 and Mary Jane in 1851. I think she was probably known as either or both.

Answer to Noggin - I've accounted for this James and Mary. They are living in Tonbridge Wells in 1851 when my James is in Canterbury. He was born in Tunbridge. You can find him on The Weald database (The history, genealogy and topography of the Weald of Kent, Surrey and Sussex)

Reply to noggin28 (again) - sorry, wasn't paying close enough attention, and missed that you had made three posts. You have the correct census records, and the second batch of children is mostly correct. "William Henry" is recorded later as "Henry William". I don't think "James Webbell" is part of the family, but I suppose if he and Henry were twins they might have been baptised separately if one was too sick the first time, or something. The earlier Thomas could well be a child of the marriage, I suppose - given that I believe that James' father's name was Thomas. Charles has always struck me as an odd choice of name for a first son in this family. He presumably died as a child.

I've got around to uploading a gedcom today - it isn't all the data I have, but it's a start. I've been attempting to do an audit of the information I have so far gathered...

Well I'm sorry to say that none of that was very helpful. Part of the problem being that I didn't realise that I wasn't going to be emailed when a response came in - a problem I have now fixed. Does the week start from when I put the request in, or from when I get a response? Could we start with this again, do you think? My chief problem is not being able to further identify James' parents. Any ideas?