Thread: Hilda Ivy VINEY Born November 20, 1905 or 1906

Hi, I would like some help in locating a fairly recent ancestor. I have been looking for her birth for years and just cannot find it. We know her mother was a bit lax in registering her offspring, but Hilda has us completely stumped.
Hilda Ivy VINEY was supposedly born November 20, 1905 or 1906, in Romford Essex. She was the daughter of Rosa Elizabeth FAIRMAN and presumably Thomas Edwin VINEY who were married in the December quarter of 1906 (Romford 4a 877). Thomas Edwin was a widower, his first wife dying in 1902. I know that Hilda married in Glasgow, by warrant, in 1933 and on her marriage certificate she cites Thomas Edwin VINEY as her father. Hilda's husband was Cameron GRIEVE.
Hilda died on May 5 1997 at The Oaks 34 Stapenhill Road, Burton on Trent and her death certificate states her date of birth as being 20th November 1905, ROMFORD Essex.
We know she visited Australia and New Zealand after she was widowed as well as before - so she must've had a passport. The passport office in England states that to get a passport she must've had a birth certificate! Her niece who lives in New Zealand remembers vaguely that Hilda said she had problems as she didn't have a birth certificate and that the one they thought was her, wasn't. (There is a registration for a Hilda Rose Elizabeth FAIRMAN born in Croydon, also a Hilda VINEY born in Leicestershire - definitely not that one.)
I believe that Hilda was the illegitimate daughter of Rose (Rosa) FAIRMAN, but there is no registration for Hilda under the name of FAIRMAN.
I am presuming that when Hilda, as a married lady applied for a passport, either in her own right, or as a wife on her husband's passport, she discovered she had no birth certificate and that maybe she had her birth registered some time later, maybe in the 1970s or so. I have trawled through a lot of the records either side of 1906 with no success. Unfortunately the lady in New Zealand cannot remember the time frame of Hilda's statement re her birth certificate other than to suggest it was sometime in the late 60s early 70s.
Hilda had children, but we have been unable to track them down - at least two have died and one (married name, Jean HOWARTH) is supposed to be out here in Australia, but I have been unable to track her down.
Any help you can give me would be most appreciated! She is my brick wall and I would like to compete this part of the VINEY tree.
Many thanks indeed
Sue VINEY, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

Have you tried Parish records? My Aunt had no birth cert. (born Canada to British parents) but obtained a British passport using her baptism certificate. Maybe that is how your ancestor got her passort.

Margaret
Hampshire UK

Hi Everyone, thank you for all your help so far.
I have looked for Hilda Ivy under all the options I can think of: Hilda, Hilda Ivy, Ivy, Ivy Hilda, Viney, Fairman and all the various spellings. We sent for a certificate for a Hilda born in Leicester - no success.
In the 1911 census Rose (mother)says she and Thoma Edwin had been married 5 years and Hilda is listed as being 6 years old, which kind of suggests that maybe she was born out of wedlock. The first wife died in 1902 so we know for sure Hilda was not her child.
When Hilda married in Scotland, she and her husband had what is known as an irregular marriage, they swore out a warrant in front of witnesses and confirmed at the local police station.
A cousin did try the local parish church in Romford, but got no response.
The only other thing I can think of is was Rose actually living with someone else when she had Hilda - she did this after Thomas Edwin VINEY died - and her children from that issue were registered under the name of Viney, then re-registered under the name of her new husband when they eventually married.

Hello

I am presuming that when Hilda, as a married lady applied for a passport, either in her own right, or as a wife on her husband's passport, she discovered she had no birth certificate and that maybe she had her birth registered some time later, maybe in the 1970s or so. I have trawled through a lot of the records either side of 1906 with no success. Unfortunately the lady in New Zealand cannot remember the time frame of Hilda's statement re her birth certificate other than to suggest it was sometime in the late 60s early 70s.

Quite feasible, particular as she would have the marriage certificate and possibly a baptismal certificate.

Have you looked at the GRO registers in the time period 19960 / 1970 when you think she may have applied for her passport?

Alternatively, have you looked birth year entry to see if there is a handwritten entry at the bottom of the page referring to the late registration.....this will be coded so it is identyfied as a late entry!

elsabels