Thread: EDWARD MARTIN BORN 1865 BRISTOL

Hello



Emma MARTIN was probably unmarried,



Check 1841 H107 287 father Henry MARTIN, mother Lonzea MARTIN



1871 census shows with cousin born Wimborne Dorset



1881 There is an Edward MARTIN b Bishopelle Dorset ( not familiar with the south) at ref RG11 189 as serv h/hold of YOUNG



Elsabels

Hi there Bandit



This is an extremely odd family.



Why would you abandon your own two children to a sister and your parents, in order to bring up your cousin's kids? It beggars belief!!



IGI Search Results

WILLIAM KNIGHT

Spouse: ELIZABETH CHAMBERLAIN [Died before 1841]

Marriage: 02 APR 1793 Bridport, Dorset, England

Source Batch No.:M158161 Dates: Source Call No.:1279486



IGI Search Results

Sarah Knight

Christening: 20 FEB 1805 St Mary's Bridport, Dorset, England

Father: William Knight Mother: Elizabeth

Source Batch No.: C021743



IGI Search Results

Edmund Vick

Spouse: Sarah Knight

Marriage: 28 OCT 1821 Whitchurch-Canonicorum, , Dorset, England

Source: Batch No.: M011665



IGI Search Results

ELIZA VICK

Christening: 12 DEC 1824 Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England

Father: EDMUND VICK Mother: SARAH

Source Batch No.: C004132 Dates: 1813-1862 Source Call No.: 1239337



IGI Search Results

Emma Marten

Christening: 08 MAY 1836 Long Critchell, Dorset, England

Father: Henry Marten Mother: Louisa

Source Batch No.: C028975



I don't find Eliza Vick in 1841.



1841 England Census for Waterford, Witchampton, Wimborne Minster, Dorset

For William Knight

William Knight 70 William Vick 20

HO107/ 4/ 39/ 9



1841 England Census for Long Critchell Street, Wimborne, Dorset

For Emma Martin

Henry Martin 35 Lonzea [Louisa] Martin 30 Emma Martin 5 Thomas Martin 3 Ketturah Martin 2 Henry Martin 1

HO107/ 287/ 12/5/ 5



Marriages Dec 1846

Cole John Wimborne 8 279

Vick Eliza Wimborne 8 279



1851 England Census for Lagland Street, Poole, Dorset

For John Cole

John Cole 26 Eliza Cole 26 Henry W E Cole 3

HO107/ 1855/ 351/ 23



1861 England Census for Lagland Street, Poole, Dorset

For John Cole

John Cole 36 Eliza Cole 36 Henry W E Cole 12 Elizabeth M Cole 5 Matilda K Cole 3 Lancelot G Cole 10 Months

RG9/ 1340/ 42/ 3



Births Sep 1862

MARTIN Emma Louisa Wimbourne 5a 269



Births Jun 1863

Martin Martha Jane Bristol 6a 11



There doesn't appear to be a registration for Edward's Birth



Do you have the birth certificates for Louisa and Martha?



Deaths Mar 1868

COLE John 43 Poole 5a 194



1871 England Census for East Borough, Wimborne, Dorset

For Matilda K Cole

Lancelot March 46 Elizabeth A March 41 Matilda K Cole 13 Niece Edward Ellis 18

RG10/1984/12/ 16



1871 England Census for East Borough, Wimborne, Dorset

For Lancelot Cole

Edmund Vick 78 Sarah Vick 70 Lance C T G Gole Grandson 10 Levi Bennett 30

RG10/1984/ 12 / 16



1871 England Census for Waterloo Buildings, Poole, Dorset

For Eliza Cole

Eliza Cole 44 Widow Elizabeth Cole 15 Louisa Martin 8 2nd Cousin Martha Martin 7 2nd Cousin Edward Martin 6 2nd Cousin

RG10/ 1988/ 69/ 3



Mark

Maybe this is the reason why we can't find the elusive so and so!!



Lack of compulsory registration:

Before 1875 there was no penalty for failure by the parents to register births and the onus was upon the local registrar to seek registrations for which he was paid a sum per entry. As you can imagine, remuneration per entry led to some cases of fraudulent entries! Registration only become compulsory in 1875.



I do not think this applied to deaths.



Surely all three children would have been illegitimate, so why register two and not the third?????



As I said, an odd family



Mark

Hi there



You've probably got all of this!!!



I reckon there's a lot more going on here with this mob than we know!!

People disappear too easily!!

Is there some name changing going on???



I wonder whether there has been a rift concerning the three families, Martin, Vick and Cole.



1841 England Census for East Borough, Wimborne Minster, Dorset

For Edmund Bick [Vick]

Edmund Bick 40 Sarah Bick 35 Elizabeth Bick 10 Martha Bick 8

HO107/289/ 3//7/ 10



I think this is most likely Emma Martin



1851 England Census for Borston Farm, Gussage All Saints, Dorset

For Emma Martin

John Friend 50 Emma Friend 35 Charles Friend 7 Frances Friend 6 John Friend 5 Emma Friend 4

Hugh Friend 3 Augustus Friend 2

Ann Friend 10 Mo Charles Stagg 33 Ann Roses 22 Emily Frampton 15

Emma Martin 16 Says she is a Nursemaid b Critchell, which is part of Wimborne

HO107/1854/34/ 17



1851 England Census for East Borough, Wimborne Minster, Dorset

For Edmund Vick

Edmund Vick 58 Sarah Vick 49 Elizabeth Vick 28 Jermiah Isabel Vick 1 Lancelot March 26

Ellen Burrows 19

HO107/1854/ 501/ 7



Marriages Jun 1852

Vick Martha Wimborne 5a 545

Welch Henry Wimborne 5a 545 He is the miller at Hinton Parva, Dorset



1861 England Census for The Mill, Hinton Parva, Dorset

For Martha Welch

Henry Welch 31 Martha Welch 28 Amelia Welch 8 Elizabeth Welch 4 Edmund Welch 10 Mo

Fanny Swyer 21 William Welch 21 George Young 27 George Kall 14

RG9/1337/ 17/ 29



1861 England Census for East Borough, Wimborne Minster, Dorset

For Edmund Vick

Edmund Vick 67 Sarah Vick 60 Ann Read 65 Levi Bennett 20 George P Hossey 39 Susan Hossey 44

George P Hossey 16 Hooper J Hossey 13 William Cox 23 Emma Cox 25

RG9/ 1338/ 37/ 1



Where is Emma Martin in 1861??? Were there more children we don't know about?? She would be at her most fertile!!



I also wonder about the paternity of the Cole and Martin children. Could John Cole be the father of them all???



Emma Louise and Martha Jane's birth certificates "may" solve the issue. I think it is essential that you get them.

If the father is missing from the certs, it just exacerbates the problem, but doesn't help with the Edward conundrum either. If you get one name, Edward could still be anybody's.



Where is Emma Louise Martin in 1881??? No sign of her until she marries her cousin



1881 Wales Census for 21 High Street, Cardiff, Glamorgan

for Martha J. Martin

Emma Martin 45 Martha J. Martin 17 Elizabeth M. Cole 25 Eliza Cole 36

RG11/ 5276/12/ 18



Why on earth did Eliza and Elizabeth Cole go to Wales with the adoptive family, rather than go to their own family in Dorset??



1881 England Census for HMS Triumph

For Lancelot G. Cole

William Pilkington 35 Lancelot G. Cole 20 William Griffin 26 And many others

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5642; Folio: 24; Page: 11



Marriages Mar 1888

Cole Lancelot George Poole 5a 401

Martin Emma Louisa Poole 5a 401



Deaths Dec 1889

Martin Emma 55 Cardiff 11a 161



1891 England Census for 2 Gordon Terrace, Poole, Dorset

For Emma Cole

Lancelot Cole 31 Emma Cole 29 Bertie Cole 1 Lilly Cole 2 Edmund Bartlett 50

RG12/1639/ 70/ 26



1891 Wales Census for 7 Edward Terrace, Cardiff, Glamorgan

for Martha Jane Martin

Martha Jane Martin 27 Elizabeth Mary Cole 35 Eliza Cole 65 Albert Edwin Henkins 3 Francis Meagher D Arey 26 Cuthbert Edward Arey 19

RG12/ 4391/4/ 1



1901 England Census for 10 Nile Row, Poole, Dorset

For Lancelot G Cole

Lancelot G Cole 40 Emma L Cole 38 Lily Cole 12 Edwin Cole 11 Rose Cole 9 Lizzie Cole 7

Katie Cole 6 Florence Cole 2 Dora Cole 1

RG13/1979/ 66



1901 Wales Census for 40 Machen Place, Canton, Cardiff, Glamorgan

For Martha Jane Martin

Eliz J Hill 64 Francis John Hill 28 Marth Jane Martin 36

/RG13/ 4985/12/ 15



1911 Census

Household MARTIN MARTHA JANE Female b 1864 aged 47 in Cardiff Glamorganshire



Mark

[quote name='banditfivealive' date='09 January 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1263052460' post='211832']

Hi Mark



Everything you said is true - they are an odd fami1y - rumour is the fami1y didnt ta1k or admit much about Emma so rumour is rife.I a1ways thought the third chi1d was a George but the census says Edward, and for Emma to buried in the same grave as the man who according to the census was her manager and is thirty or so years o1der than her whith no re1ationship exp1ation begers be1ief. Ony one chid Martha came to terms with it and worked in the shop and took it over when her mum died. Yet even she was put in the same p1ot as the other two when she died. She was at the time friend1y with the next generation down in swansea which was my my mums aunties. They buried her and took the bu1k of the estate so I understan, and mum never got much. Dont know why she she went to Bristo1 in the first p1ace but she did have two of the kids there and John Coombs was there and why they came to Cardiff I dont know. I can on1y assume it was an up and coming seaport and money was to be made there. The arcades had just been bui1t and are sti11 there as is ther market. The Martins do undoubtab1y 1ink with the Co1e and Vick fami1ies as they are on the census and trade records for Cardiff over a number of years.



Didnt know about the registration bit though. Perhaps if I 1ook for deaths of Edwards or George born 1865 I might be ab1e to work back. Many thanks for your he1p though.

regards

[/quote]



I know Cardiff well.

I used to live in Dinas Powys and went to school in Cardiff in the early 50s.

I used to breed rabbits and sell them to a guy in the market.



Mark