Thread: Eagleton/Watts complete muddle HELP please

So I am well and truly stuck and would appreciate any ideas you may have.



I have a re-registered birth from 1940 which relates to a 1930 birth in St Giles, Camberwell. I sent for the certificate and it confirms what the family knows of the child. Derek Eagleton - mother Ivy Watts - Father Frederick Eagleton. Ivy and Frederick did not marry until 1933, so I thought that it was the usual case of mum and dad eventually marrying a few years after the birth of the child and eventually getting around to giving him his father’s name in 1940.



See previous thread in this forum for details :- http://www.ancestryaid.co.uk/boards/...x-entries.html



However, when I sent for the original birth certificate after finding the reference in the 1930 index which gave a different surname and mother’s maiden name – Derek Watts Mother’s maiden name Simpkins - along with the original 1916 birth certificate (Daisy Edwards mother’s maiden name Beadon) who I thought was Derek’s blood-related Aunt (I already had her re-registered birth entry from 1963 - Daisy (or Doing as it has been mistranscribed) Watts mother’s maiden name Beadon -–- I had a very kind call from the GRO. They told me that both Derek and Daisy’s original certificates were blocked. They were able to confirm for me that the original birth references from the 1916 and 1930 indexes did relate to the re-registered births that I had, but they could not release the certificates or tell me any more.



Strangely, as I posted in the above thread, my husband’s surname is Simkins and the Watts & Simkins families knew each other long before my husband’s grandfather Albert Simkins married Violet Watts in 1930.



I have sorted out the muddle with Daisy as I have now received a couple of her sibling’s birth certificates – who did not re-register their birth, so I now have all the information that I need on her for the moment.



All of the Watts siblings up to 1916 were actually born Edwards and the next group of children were actually born Watts starting with Masie in 1921. However, although I have the 1906 marriage certificate for Ada Lilian Beadon and Henry Edwards – I can find no marriage between Ada and Masie’s father Eugene Edwin Watts.



But, I am really anxious to find out who Derek’s parents were and whether he had a different relationship to my husband’s family than we had previously thought.



I would really appreciate any ideas/theories – even if they sound hair-brained - on how I could possibly find birth information on Derek.



Many thanks in advance to anyone that can find their way through all of this

I'll study this one tomorrow, it's a little late now. It does sound very complicated Geniegenie, maybe a night owl will solve part of the mystery.

Thanks Slizzy - I would really appreciate your expert advice - yep it does seem complicated and I hope I have not confused you by my post - please ask any questions as you go along!



Night

Why would the Birth Certs be blocked



That's a new one on me

Hi Mark



The GRO told me that when people re-registered a birth they could take the option to block anyone from viewing or requesting copies of their original records - this was often done when someone was born out of wedlock for example, and didn't what anyone to know and therefore, to avoid the stigma that illigitimacy had in those days - they blocked their original record.



However, with Daisy - she was born "in wedlock" but changed her name to Watts (the name of her stepfather) at her re-registration in 1963. All of the Edwards siblings were know as Watts to the family although they did not re-register their births, and the Edwards link has only just come to light as I am researching this part of my tree.



Now, I am trying to follow through to understand why they did not want anyone to know that they had been born with the surname "Edwards". Perhaps, their real father Henry Edwards did something to disgrace the family, so they did not want to be associated with him??? Who knows?



With Derek it is a completely different scenario - it was always believed that he was the illigitimate son of Daisy's older sister Ivy and that when she married 3 years after his birth - he took her husband's surname. But now it appears that Ivy simply took him as her own and that he was born to a male member of the Watts family!! However, I can find no reference to a marriage between a Watts and Simkins/Simpkins in that area or era. So I am assuming that when Ivy re-registered Derek's birth in 1940 she blocked his original certificate so that no-one would know that he was not her son!!!??



I guess my question is - is there another way of establishing Derek's birth parents without the original birth certificate????

Hi Geniegenie,



Have you thought of looking for a relation that died just before the re-registration and looking for the will ?

Hi Starlight



Many thanks for that idea No haven't tried it - can you give me some idea of how I would go about it - have not searched for relatively recent wills before - is it the probate calendar that I need?



Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Geniegenie,



You will need to find someone that died around that time who would have known the true parents of Derek. I don't know how often this sort of information is added to a will but It has been found for me on one of mine The probate calendar will give the name, date of death and residence of the person but will not have the information that you are looking for. You would need to visit or find someone that can for you.



See:- http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...2Ehtm&lBack=-1

Hi Starlight



Thanks so much for your help - at least its an avenue to explore. I will get on to it and see if I can find a likely relative

Hi Geniegenie,



Do you have any names in the frame for a likely father of Derek?