Thread: trying to find lee

hiya.i am trying to find the ancestors of joseph lee b1858 in llanelly carmarthen d1940 in caerphilly.i think i have found the family in 1881 census.public records rg11.piece 5461/39.page 9.census place llangasty.talyllyn.brecon.as they were travellers.tinkers.hawkers.umbrella makers i cant seem to trace them back further.can anyone help please.dave

Hi Dave All I can find is Joseph Lee b1858 Llanelly d1940 Caerphilly Wife: Elizabeth lived at 4 Lumborn Foundry Tavistock Devon no other info available sorry regards George.

Hi DAVEJ,



The census ref you gave has Joseph born 1864, you say 'your' Joseph was born 1858. From where did you obtain a birth year of 1858? Why do you think the 1881 census is 'your' Joseph? Do you know who he married, and when, and if so do you have his marriage certificate? Do you know for sure he was a traveller? Sorry for all the questions, but to help you in your search we need to know what established info you have. Do you have any other info which may help in the search? If you have traced him back to 1858, please take us along your trail and we will try our best to help.

slizzy thanks for your reply i will give you everything i know the info i have came from my father. i took over the tree when he died 6 years ago.joseph lee b1858 in llanelly d1940 caerphilly.married elvira burton bc1862 place n/k d1933 caerphilly.they had 2 children godfrey b1899 d1946 swansea.and olive lee b1900 d1956 caerphilly.godfrey married selina callow b1903 d 1976 swansea.they had 3 children jack b1931 d1993.james b1933.violet b1935 d 1984 all swansea.olive my grandmother married david davies b1895 in dowlais merthyr tydfil d1958 caerphilly.they had 3 children elvira b1925.thelma b1926 (my mother).hadyn b1936 all caerphilly.i have no certs only my parents births and marriage.my mother remembers the family living in travellers/gypsy caravans in the 1940s in caerphilly.i have spoken to my mother and they were definatly gypsys.my mother joined the gypsy society to trace them but still no luck.hope to hear from you soon.dave

Hi Dave,



Your Lee ancestors are very elusive . My experience in searching for gypsy/travellers, has taught me the travelling people didn't always conform to authority, and often gave wrong information, whether this was intentional, or a misunderstanding I don't know. I have, in the past, helped others researching gypsy ancestry and found the travellers commonly changed their names, this all makes tracing gypsies difficult.



I will post whatever I find which may be relevant - Lee families with a Welsh connection and working as hawkers, and see if we can piece anything together.



I haven't found a probable birth for Godfrey Lee c. 1899.



There was an Olive Lee birth registered in Monmouth, Jan-Mar qrt 1900, and another in Bedwelty, Apr-Jun 1898.



No luck in finding a marriage between Joseph Lee and Elvira Burton.

1901 Census.



Name: Olive Lee Age in 1901: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Joseph Mother's Name: Matilda Gender: Female



Civil Parish: Abersychan Ecclesiastical parish: Trevethin Town: Old Furnace County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales

Joseph Lee/30/head/Llanelly/Hawker

Matilda Lee/25/wife/ birth place N/K /Hawker

Olive Lee/2/dau/birth place N/K



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Living three doors away are......



Name: James Lee Age in 1901: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Amelia Gender: Male Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales



Civil Parish: Abersychan Ecclesiastical parish: Trevethin Town: Old Furnace County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales

James Lee/25/head/Swansea/Hawker

Amelia Lee/22/wife/birth place N/K/Hawker

Theresa Lee/2/dau/Ponty? Glamorgan



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Living next door to James Lee, two doors away from Joseph.



Name: George Burton Age in 1901: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882 Relation: Head Mother's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Shropshire, England



Civil Parish: Abersychan Ecclesiastical parish: Trevethin Town: Old Furnace County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales

George Burton/19/head/Shropshire/Hawker

Edith Burton/23/wife/Cardiff/Hawker

Mary Burton/60/mother/Dolly Green Radnorshire/Hawker



I can't find a Dolly Green in Radnorshire, there's a Dawley Green in Shrops.

1881. Class: RG11; Piece: 5516; Folio: 7; Page: 7; Line:

Name: Joseph Lee Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation: Son Father's Name: Joseph Mother's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Leominster, Hereford, England



Civil Parish: Broughton County/Island: Denbighshire Country: Wales



Street address: South Sea Gipsys Tent

Joseph Lee/65/head/hereford/Basket Maker

Mary Lee/50/wife/Ross/Basket Maker

John Lee/24/son/Salop/Basket Maker

William Lee/22/son/Welshpool/Basket Maker

Joseph Lee/26/son/Tin Man/Leominster

Mary Lee/21/dau/Farndon Cheshire/Hawker

Elizabeth Lee/19/dau/Denbighshire/Hawker

James Lee/23/son/Salop/Basket Maker

Mary Edwards/11/grandau/Glamorgan/Hawker

Louisa Anne Lee/14/dau/Hereford/Hawker



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The 1881 census you found.



Name: Samuel Lee Age: 71 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Hanburn, Berkshire, England



Civil Parish: Llangasty Talyllyn County/Island: Breconshire Country: Wales



Street address: Trebershun Road (Tents)



Samuel Lee/71/head/Berks/Basket Maker

Mary Lee/42/wife/Ross Herefordshire

Nathaniel Lee/25/son/Glamorgan/Tinker

Joseph Lee/17/son/Llannely/Tinker

Lewiza Lee/16/dau/Glamorgan/Hawker

Laura Lee/12/dau/?

Oliver Smith/31/nephew widower/Umbrella Maker

Edmund Smith/13/nephew/Dudley

Emily Smith/25/niece/Bristol/Hawker

Dave, was Godfrey known as Jack? I ask as there's this marriage (can't find another one) Lena could of course be short for Selena.



Marriages Jun 1930



Calow Lena Lee Swansea 11a2139

Lee Jack Calow Swansea 11a2139



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Your grandparents marriage.



Marriages Dec 1924



Davies David E Lee Pontypridd 11a1221

Lee Olive Davies Pontypridd 11a1221

1901.



Name: Giley Lee Age in 1901: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899 Relation: Son Father's Name: Aaron Mother's Name: Freedom Gender: Male Where born: Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales



Civil Parish: Pontypridd Ecclesiastical parish: Pontypridd St Catherine County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales

Aaron Lee/34/head/Hawker/Pontypridd

Freedom Lee/30/wife/Hawker/Glamorgan

Mary Lee/5/dau/Pontypridd

Giley Lee/2/son/Pontypridd

Evan Lee/4/son/Pontypridd



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Name: Nathaniel Lee Age in 1901: 43 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Selina Gender: Male Where born: Sciwen, Glamorgan, Wales



Civil Parish: Pembrey Ecclesiastical parish: Pembrey St Illtyd and Llandyry Town: Kidwelly County/Island: Carmarthenshire Country: Wales

Registration district: Llanelly Sub registration district: Pembre



Nathaniel Lee/43/head/Basket Maker

Selina Lee/37/wife/Hereford

Ruth Lee/18/dau/Hereford Monmouthshire

Mary Lee15/dau//Monkshood England

Diana Lee/10/dau/Gowerton Glamorgan

Walter Lee/7/son/Gorsanon Llandilo, Carmarthenshire

You may find this website interesting, Dave.



http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-welsh%20.htm



Here's the patriarch of the South Wales Lee's as mentioned in the above website. The census doesn't give birth places for Sampson's family, just says all born in England and Wales. Sampson was a basket maker.



1861.



Name: Sampson Lee Age: 56 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Alderaife Gender: Male Where born: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England



Civil Parish or Township: Talachddu County/Island: Breconshire Country: Wales

Sampson Lee 56 Alderaife Lee 50 Shandras Lee 21 Senbee Lee 20 Alafair Lee 16 Gravalina Lee 14 Job Lee 15 Maggonas Lee 13 Louisa Lee 19 Esther Lee 11 Madonna Lee 8 Charlie Lee 10 Perrin Lee 9 Essea Lee 6 Diana Lee 2



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Is this the same Sampson in 1871? His birth year is different, different wife (but could be a second marriage). He has a son Isaiah/Essea same birth year.



Name: Sampson Lee Age: 56 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Jane Gender: Male Where born: Sixbrey, Gloucestershire, England Civil Parish: Llanelly Town: Brynmawr County/Island: Breconshire Country: Wales

Sampson Lee/56/head/travelling tinker

Jane Lee/50/wife/Hawker/Stratford

Isaiah Lee/15/son/Hawker/Stourport

William Lee/14/son/Basket Maker/Passage Gloucestershire

Elvina Lee/12/dau/Allchurch Worcs



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This website has some census of gypsy families living in Wales.





http://romanygenes2.webeden.co.uk/#/...us1/4527919870



And this page from the same site.



http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk...lki/4531499185



Gypsy photograph collection



http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/gypsy/photoind.htm