Thread: Derbyshire 1841 lookup please

Hi Good Peoples,

After a long search I may have found a direct ancestor who lived in Derbyshire around 1840 and hopefully is in the 1841 census.

Can someone please check for 'William Green' (Iron Moulder or Journeyman) who may have been living with an Ann Green, possibly in the parish of RIPLEY near BELPER.

I am particularly interested to know what relationship existed between them e.g. married; brother/sister, and if there are any children involved.

Thanks

Hi Ixion,



The 1841 Census gives no indication of relationships between people in the household. Usually only the occupation of the head of household is given.



William and Ann may be there but it will be hard to confirm that they are the right ones. When was William born and was he born in Derbyshire

Hi Ixion



1841 England Census Name: Ann Green Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821 Where born: Derbyshire, England Registration district: Belper Sub registration district: Ripley Household Members William Green 25 Ann Green 20 William Green 2 . William is an Iron moulder, but this does not prove it is the right William. Is William junior a son ? suggest you look for the birth/christening of William 1839 and maybe a marriage between a William Green and Ann ? abt 1838. you could also try the 1851 census

Thank You Noggin28

My instinct tells me that William will not be found on the 1851 for Derbyshire.

William I now think becomes Joseph by 1847 when he marries Mary Ann Tunbridge in Poplar, London.

Joseph is referred to as William on his son's birth certificate (christened Edwin William), and on several other documents we have. The other connections are his trade, his fathers name and trade (although he could have adopted his deceased wife's father for the certificate!), and his date of birth.

Following your advice there is some evidence that William/Joseph's wife Ann died sometime between 1842 and 1846 and his son died in 1842 according to BMD (there may be other children but this increasingly looks like either a family tragedy .... or he murdered them and fled!)

I have much to research but a lookup on the 1851 for the family in Derbyshire would obviously now be a great help.

Hi Welshlady,

OK here's what I know for certain (based on census, family records and BMD certificates I have obtained.)

Joseph Green first appears in 1847 marrying Mary Ann Tunbridge at Poplar. He quotes his fathers name as James, a Foundryman. Joseph signs as 'x' and both he and Mary are described as 'being of age'.

On the 1851 Joseph gives his place of birth as Derbyshire. Both he and Mary give incorrect ages, but this is corrected on his death certificate and she corrects her age on the 1861.

Joseph is killed in an accident in December 1859.

His son (Edwin William) is born January 1860.

When Edwin William marries in 1891 he gives his fathers name as William.

Obviously the mystery is where was Joseph in 1841 and was he masquerading as William or was William his real name? (No birth record exists for a Joseph in 1816 in Derbyshire that I can find with a father called James.)

What I find of significance in the William Green of Ripley is that he is the right age and trade; plus, if we assume that the Ann living with him was his wife I have since found on the LDS that an Ann of the right age was born to a James Green (sic) of nearby Pentrich who was a foundryman. Thats quite some coincidence.

Its a great family mystery and I really thank everyone in on this thread very much for their input so far.

Yes he does and I do realise he could be the classic fleeing husband but the death dates for his family members do make things all very abrupt. It would be interesting to find out if there were any epidemics etc in that part of Derbyshire in the early 1840's! And of course since Ripley is only a relative stones throw from Pentrich where Ann's family were it does seem odd that he didn't end up there or at least working in the same foundry as his father-in-law. All very mysterious indeed!

Still, I can find no better candidate William (or Joseph) Green at this time.