Thread: Searching Rogers and Shepherd in Hammersmith / Fulham

Hi

I have a puzzle for you.



My Great Grandfather, Henry Sydney Rogers (1883) to was born to Henry John Rogers and Elizabeth Shepherd. On the BC it is stated that Mother was Elizabeth Rogers formerly Shepherd, indicating that Henry and she were married.



In 1881 Henry John is to be found with Wife Maria and children Henry P. 1872 and Rosie E. 1881

(RG11; Piece: 546; Folio: 71; Page: 24; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341124.)



In 1891 Henry John is found with Wife Elizabeth and children Constance 1877, Edith 1879, Henry S 1883 plus 3 others

(RG12; Piece: 46; Folio 169; Page 31; GSU roll: 6095156.)



Can you see the puzzle yet? It seems that Henry J was having a relationship with Elizabeth whilst also married to Maria (by comparing birth years of the children)



I am descended from Henry and Elizabeth and have word of mouth that Henry did have more than one relationship, and that "the other woman" was German, (Maria was born in Austria)



I would like to trace Elizabeth and the children Constance and Edith in 1881, and also Elizabeth and Henry's marriage, but so far I have had little luck



Can anybody help?



Regards



Tony

Hi Tony,



Elizabeth's name was formerly Shepherd. At first glance I would think that this is her second marriage as it doesn't say maiden name Shepherd. The older children on the 1891 census could be hers from her previous marriage but have taken the surname of her new husband.

Hi Starlight



That's an interesting thought, I will go and check the birth certificate again.



Many thanks





Tony

Cannot see a death registered for Maria.

[quote name='Jeuel']Cannot see a death registered for Maria.[/quote]





No, Maria is still around in 1901 aged 50 with her 20 year old daughter Rosie

She is head of household and a widow



Henry John died in 1895



If Maria is stated as a widow, does this mean that they were never divorced?



In 1897, Elizabeth Shepherd (Rogers) married a John Jones and went on to have 2 further children (as seen in 1901 census, and on a family tree handed down to me)



It very much looks as if Henry and Elizabeth were living as Husband and wife in 1891 even though Maria is still stated as being married in the same census, Strangely she is labelled as Mother, there is no head of household and she is at this time living with her 2 children, Henry P and Rosie



Cheers



Tony

Hi Tony,



Something here isn't quite right. You say Maria - wife of Henry John - was still living in 1901, this being the case, Henry John and Elizabeth can't have been married (unless Henry John and Maria divorced). Assuming they couldn't marry, by law their children should have been registered with their mother's surname.

[quote name='slizzy']Hi Tony,



Something here isn't quite right. You say Maria - wife of Henry John - was still living in 1901, this being the case, Henry John and Elizabeth can't have been married (unless Henry John and Maria divorced). Assuming they couldn't marry, by law their children should have been registered with their mother's surname.

[/quote]



Yes, Wonderful isn't it? I said it was a puzzle



I think I will search for a divorce



Thanks



Tony

Tony, what proof do you have that Henry J. Rogers with Maria and children on the 1881 census, and Henry Rogers with Elizabeth and children in 1891, are the same person?



Henry J on 1881 census is recorded as born circa 1849, and a commercial traveller.



Henry (no J) on 1891 census was born circa 1851, and is an auditor.



So I'm wondering if they are two different people. I know on both censuses Henry, or Henrys' were born in Edenbridge Kent, the registration district would have been Sevenoaks. There was a Henry John Rogers registered Jan-Mar 1848, in Sevenoaks, and a Henry Rogers registered Jul-Sept 1850, in Sevenoaks.

[quote name='slizzy']Tony, what proof do you have that Henry J. Rogers with Maria and children on the 1881 census, and Henry Rogers with Elizabeth and children in 1891, are the same person?



[/quote]



Hi Slizzy



I have an 1883 birth certificate for Henry Sydney, (My G Grandfather) and his parents are Henry John Rogers and Elizabeth Rogers Formerly Shepherd.



The Certificate also states that he was a commercial traveller



My Great Great Aunt (Still alive at 100) recently recalled visiting a relation who her mother referred to as "that German Woman" (Maria was born in Austria) and also that Henry John possibly was married more than once.



I cannot find Henry with Maria and with Elizabeth at the same time in any census (not proof I know)



I did find the two Henrys that you speak of and was puzzling over them for a while, not sure which to go for.



I agree, the puzzle is not complete but most of the pieces are there, if only I could find Elizabeth in the 1881 census when Henry is with Maria, and prove that she was on her own with the children.



Thanks for your help



Tony