Thread: One mystery solved. Another one now.

Hi



I am glad I found out the truth about Thos Roberts and Mary Ann Walder having a affair while his wife was dying. But I would appreciate a few second opinions on this puzzle.



My 3xgreat grandmother was Clara Emma Auber born 24 December 1835 in Shoreditch London, the last child of John & Elizabeth Auber (nee Helsdon). They wed in 1806. Clara was christened on 24 April 1836 at St Leonards Shoreditch.



Trouble is, Elizabeth would have been 51 when Clara was born. Elizabeth was born Elizabeth Helsdon in 1784 in Bethnal Green. John & Elizabeth's penultimate child John George uber was born in June 1827, 8 and a half years before Clara. I have heard that grandparents often pretended to be the parents to cover up one of their elder daughters being the mother.



Clara had a sister Emma Auber born in May 1813 in Bethnal Green, London. Emma never married and had 4 illegitimate children Edwin b1840, Gore Edwin born in 1843, Matilda in 1850 and George in 1855. George died as a baby.



John & Elizabeth are living at 3 Crown Court Shoreditch in the 1841 census. Emma and Clara, who'd have been 5, were both missing from the household.



Emma lied on all the birth registrations of her children. Edwins 1840 birth cert she says the father was Joseph Auber, a carpenter, and Emma Auber formerly Obey. Gore Edwin's 1843 bith cert says "Joseph Auber, carpenter and Emma Auber formely Auber".



Matilda's 1850 birth cert says father is "Henry Auber, carpenter and Emma Auber formely Helsdon". George Auber's 1855 birth cert says that the father is "John Auber, carpenter and Emma uber formelry Helsdon. In the 1851 and 1861 censuses, she states that she is a widow. She made up 3 fictitious fathers on the 4 birth certs.



In 1858 she registered her mums death and gave her address as Europa Place, St Lukes which ties in with her 1861 address.



Could Emma have been the actual mother of Clara if her supposed mother was 51 at the time of birth and the previous child was born 8 years before?



Ben

It certainly sounds possible Ben. 51 does seem rather old to give birth, and middle name Emma mmmmmm! It would help to find Clara and Emma on the 1841 census........I've taken a look but couldn't find them

Hi Slizzy



The previous children were born as follows:-



1 December 1806

9 November 1808

9 November 1810

3 May 1813

29 December 1815

3 January 1818

11 July 1820

22 February 1822

8 September 1824

June 1827

24 December 1835 for Clara.



There was an 8 year gap between the June 1827 babe and Clara.



I cannot find Clara or Emma in 1841 either.



Ben

I couldn't either - I'm sure your theory is right though

Gillian

Hi



All of the previous children were born every 2 to 3 years from 1806 to 1827. Elizabeth was 43 when she had the 1827 child. Why a sudden gap between the 1827 and the 1835 child?



Clara's middle name is a pointer wouldnt you think? If it was the first name of an elder sister who had 4 illegitimate children later on in life?



Ben

Hi Ben,



I do agree that your hypothesis sounds probable.

Hi



Normally you only baptised a child if it was yours unless you were the grandparents covering up an illegitimate birth. Then it may be different but if it was parents of a child bearing age then there is no reason to doubt.



Ben

Hi Ben



Have you seen the baptism in the original parish record? Priests were not as "pc" as of recent years...lol....they often said "bas***d child of ???" or " reputed father"



Also the Bast***y papers (or whatever they called) so that the Parish wouldnt have to pay for child..



It is also possible that she WAS the daughter of John & Elizabeth....it could/would still be possible to have a child at that age lol maybe after she passed 43 years of age she thought she was "safe"



BUT your theory is also plausible



Who did Clara Emma name as father on her wedding cert?? hmm probably John if she thought he was her dad..... but I have found certs and been surprised that they have named a father, not recorded on a baptism and mother never married.



Maybe this could just be a brickwall that you may never solve



Loz

Hi



Clara named John as her father on her marriage cert.



Have you any thoughts on why Clara Emma Auber was given her much older sister Emma's first name as a middle name?



Ben

[quote name='ancestoraddict']Hi



Clara named John as her father on her marriage cert.



Have you any thoughts on why Clara Emma Auber was given her much older sister Emma's first name as a middle name?



Ben[/quote]



Errr...noo!!! Which does make your theory more probable



The baptism register "may" hold a clue. Not sure if they would get away with parentage on them



As Clara Emma wouldn't have a need to search her baptism....the secret would remain about her parentage.......she may never have found out who her real parents were, hence named John as father.



rolleyes: Sorry can't suggest anything else



Loz