Thread: St Helens - Lancashire

Hello



Looking for help with my elusive GGF from St Helens



His name is Thomas Topping his father was Joseph Topping and he was born in St Helens



In the 1901 Census He was aged 59 - Living at Baxter Street, St Helens

But, on his Marriage Certificate in 1906 when he married my GGM Ellen Thompson, 5 years later, he was only 56! His date of birth is unsure and could be anything from 1841 - 1847



He was described as a widow in 1906, so was married at least once before. Perhaps someone will see this and have information about him or be able to check St Helens church records for any former wife





Othe Name interests: Arnold - Chamberlain - Dinan - Ellison - Gilchrist - Roberts - Swallow - Thompson - Topping

I wonder if your 1906 certificate is possibly wrong -

In 1901 (have you looked at the 2nd page?) the household is:

Thomas Topping 59 coal ?

Ellen 38 wife b Lancs St Helens

Elizabeth Ellison daughter 13

Ann Thompson daughter 7

John Thompson grandson 5

Alfred Topping son 3

Thomas Topping son 1

Elizabeth born Ashton under Lyne, all the rest St Helens

Gillian

Hi Gillian



The household details are correct, Ellen was also married before



The entry stating John Thompson was a 'Grandson' is wrong as he was Ellen's son from first marriage.



Their child William, ( My GF) was born 1904 - At his wedding in 1926, John Thompson, his half brother, is a witness.



The problem is in knowing which birthdate for Thomas is more accurate - which would give a chance of finding out who he is, who his father was, who he was previously married to.



If anyone is able to look up Parish records around St Helens to find entries for him I would be grateful. - I have tried other records and keep coming up with the same possibilities, but none of them seem to fit . If I could find out who he married before, or when he died, I could investigate this information.

Thank you for clarifying. As you have obviously done a lot of work on this perhaps you could post your 'short list' and if you could also post the parishes where you would like look-ups I will see if I can help at all.

Gillian

There is a sight called st helens connect that is all things concerned with st helens and has a genealogy help/request forum on the sight give it a try.Don't know if you have to join to post requests.

ragards ray

Hi

couple of questions

who is elizabeth ellison (13) daughter on 1901 census gillian found.

if that is the correct family in 1901 census before he married your ggmother are we saying that ellen might be his previous wife or are you saying that this ellen was your ggm and living as wife with thomas before marriage



(a thomas topping married a jane ellen thompson in 1896 in blackurn just to confuse things. )

Hi



Thank you BENRYMND for the info re the St Helens Connect site - I did know of it and gained some useful information there. I would also recommend it for anyone with links to St Helens or surrounding areas.



Thanks also to Welshlady



The household details are correct - Elizabeth Ellison is Ellen Ellisons daughter. Perhaps illigitmate, or perhaps from an earlier marriage to someone with the same surname? - I only know Ellen Ellison did marry Henry Thompson in 1894 and had two further children Anne and John Thompson.



She then married my GGF Thomas Topping in 1906 and had children with him. - One of whom is my grandfather. - Ellen Ellison is my GGM



I found her marriage to Henry Thompson - (but no sign of his death in Lancs BMD?) - I also have Thomas & Ellens Marrige details from 1906 - (His father was named Joseph and was deceased)



Both Ellen (my GGM) and Thomas (my GGF) were described as widowed - so were married previously before getting together.



In the 1901 Census both are listed as born in St Helens - I am sure they were, - but cannot locate them in the various Census returns.



I cannot find Thomas or Ellen except in the 1901 Census They must be there somewhere, but which ones are they? Where are they living? Who are their parents / spouses I am no wiser after much searching.



I do know Ellen was born abt 1863 - Thomas is less certain, - anything between 1840 to 1850



Which DOB is more likely to be correct? - The one stated on his marriage certificate? Or the one in the 1901 Census?



Why was Ellens daughter Elizabeth Ellison born in Ashton Under Lyne?



Where can I find previous marriages for Thomas Topping in St Helens area ? ( Parr/Sutton/Bold/Eccleston being most likely areas)



Regarding the Marriage in Blackburn - Very interesting! - But hopefully no connection! Otherwise........Hmmm.



Sheila

no answers only questions. this has got me bemused and intrigued

do you have ellen ellison and henry thompsons certificate. if not i would order this to find out whether she was a widow etc. this might help narrow down the search for her prior to 1894. if she had been married before then ellison would not be her maiden name. do you have williams (your GF) birth certificate. what names does it give for his mothers maiden name etc



the fact that she married thomas in 1906 by which time they had three children , but were living as man and wife in 1901 suggests that perhaps harry thompson did not die until 1906 thus not leaving them free to marry until then.



as for thomas topping..... well number of possiblities but no certainties. can see a thomas son of joseph and martha, coal miner on 1871 census but born worsely lancs and living bolton.

Sorry - what I posted was wrong!

Gillian

Hi Gillian

Not sure what you mean - What was wrong?



Also, Thanks Welshlady



I will send for the marriage certificate for Ellens 1st marriage -Should have thought of that !!



Sheila