Thread: The elusive Miss Emma Bertha HEINE/Z

My great x 2 grandmother, Emma Bertha HEINE/Z is a brickwall! Please can someone suggest where I should look for more info on this difficult lady?



I have combed the census reports for her and have only found her in three of them. As she was already married at the time, I have no way of knowing who her parents and siblings were. I have the original copy of my great grandfather's birth certificate and there her maiden name is given as HEINE although I grew up being told it was HEINZ - could HEINE just be a spelling error?



This is what I have:

According to family lore she was Jewish and possibly born in Germany, her family disowned her when she married a Christian.

I have found her in the 1881, 1891 & 1901 census returns. In the first 2 she claims to have been born in Whitechapel, in the last one she says St Pancras. (She was living in St Pancras when all 3 census were taken.) I cannot find her in any other census reports.

She was married to George Frederick WEST in about 1880 (but, once again, no record has been found to establish when they married)

Her children included; Margaret, Richard, Francis, Alice & Florence WEST.

I've also found someone who may be her (Emma Bertha WEST) in the 1902 St Pancras death records.



I'd appreciate any help or suggestions.



Many thanks,

Sheridan

Hello Sheridan,



Nearest I've found so far.



Name: Bertha Heing Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relation: Niece Gender: Female Where born: Bohemia



Civil Parish: Westminster St Anne Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne County/Island: Middlesex Country: England



Street address:



Occupation:



Condition as to marriage:



View Image





Registration district: Strand Sub-registration district: St Anne Soho ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 307 Household Members: Name Age Helena Burow 17 Anna Cronier 18 Elizabeth Czarkowski 35 Jean Czarkowski 38 Anna Heing 45 Bertha Heing 12 May Overlack 23 Louis Rey 22

This looks more likely



1851 England Census

about Henry Rudolph Heins



Name: Henry Rudolph Heins Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Sophia Gender: Male Where born: Germany



Civil Parish: St Pancras County/Island: Middlesex Country: England



Street address:



Occupation:



Condition as to marriage:



Disability:



View Image





Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Tottenham Court ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 343 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Sophia Heins 35 Emma Heins 7 Gustus Firdmand Heins 34 Henry Rudolph Heins 37

Thanks so much, Slizzy!



I forgot to mention that she seems to have been born in 1853. If we shave a few years off that, I'd say she couldn't have been born earlier than 1850. Then again, one never knows. With her being estranged from her family it's not impossible that she gave details that were not 100% correct?



Anyway, perhaps what I should do is send for the death certificate of the person who appears to be her (1902 St Pancras death record) and, if it is her, one might find her parents details that way? Or do they not list one's parents, etc on a death certificate from that period?



Many thanks again!

Sheridan

Hi Sheridan,



I'm struggling to find Emma B and George F west in the 1881, 91, and 01 census. I have found an Emma B and George F on the 1881 living in St Pancras, but this Emma was born 1845. To help with your search could you post the census details please?

Slizzy I appreciate your help so much! The 1881 Census you have found is the correct one! It has just been misstranscribed. (What the census taker wrote was either 24 or 26 and the person that transcribed it has keyed in 36 - hence the birth year being 1845.) Their is also a son mentioned - Frederick Charles WEST born 1867 - we now suspect he may be George Frederick's son from a previous marriage (Emma Bertha would have been too young at the time of his birth?) I am going to have a quick look at the records I have (1891 and 1901) and I'll post it here in a little while.

Thanks again,

Sheridan

Slizzy, the 1891 census has also been mistranscribed - they're down as Wood instead of West. Just a thought.... I wonder if George Frederick West's (born abt 1849 Ireland or Stepney???) father might have been a Charles? I just noticed both his first and second son's second names are Charles....

Slizzy, here's the 1901 census - once again mistranscribed!!!!! It says she's 18, born 1888 but if you look at the original it says she's 48, therefore would have been born 1853.



1901 England Census - Emma B West



Name: Emma B West

Age: 18 - THIS IS WRONG _ MISTRANSCRIBED AGAIN!

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883 (SHOULD BE abt 1853)

Relation: Wife

Spouse's Name: -George

Gender: Female

Where born: St Pancras, London, England

Civil Parish: St Pancras

Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew

County/Island: London

Country: England

View Image

Registration district: St Pancras

Sub-registration district: Kentish Town

ED, institution, or vessel: 10

Neighbors: View others on page

Household schedule number: 576

Household Members:

Name Age

Alice M West 9

Dick West 16

Emma B West 18 (SHOULD BE 48!!!!)

Florence E West 7

Frank J West 11

George F West 51



Many thanks,

Sheridan

OK so this is them in 1891 (posting census helps as ref.)



Name: George F Wood

[George F West] Age: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Emma B Gender: Male Where born: Ireland



Civil Parish: St Pancras Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew County/Island: London Country: England



Street address:



Occupation:



Condition as to marriage:



Education:



Employment status:



View Image





Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Kentish Town ED, institution, or vessel: 23 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Mary Paterson 72 Alice Warren 78 Dick C Wood 6 Emma B Wood 57 Frank J Wood 1 George F Wood 42 Margare B Wood 8

Hi Sheridan,



If I were you I'd be inclined to send for the 1902 death cert. If it is your Emma Bertha you can then maybe find out where she's buried and perhaps find some info from her gravestone.



I searched and searched for a marriage record for Emma and George, unfortunately I haven't found anything as yet.



Have you found George and Frederick on the 1871 census?



I hope George wasn't born in Ireland .......... if he was it will be difficult tracing his ancestry.



Libby