Thread: The Brick Wall that nobody but nobody can help me with - unless you maybe??

Hi All

I posted a request for help re my G Grandad about 2 years ago- but it got so frustating that I had to walk away and cool off for a bit.....

Now Im back to try again- but after a solid week of devoting 100% of my time to solve this mystery - I am no closer than I was 2 years ago.



Can anyone help before I give up for good please? I have a G Grandad that did not exist on any records until he turned 31 and I want to find out where his missing childhood went to. The jackpot would be to have enough info to get a birth cert- but his birth does not appear to be registered. Having said that, neither does my birth so perhaps its all a conspiracy?



His name was Benjamin Norris and as this is my birth surname, it does really matter to me.



I have my Grans birth cert and death cert and I know for 100% fact that her father was called Benjamin Norris and her mother was Margaret Partington - but from there onwards it goes downhill.



I have Margarets and Bens marriage cert and in 1889 Ben says he was 31. In both the 1891 and 1901 census, Ben still gives an age which gives him a birth year of 1858, so he seems fairly certain about his age. He doesn't sign his name with a cross and he has nice hand writing- so I pressume he was educated enough to know his age. Ben also says he was born in Bolton, Lancs and sticks to this story throughout the following 2 census's.

On the marriage cert if 1889 he gives his father as John Norris deceased.



Can I find a Benjamin born in Bolton Lancs in 1858? No way - zilch, zero, nothing. I have looked everywere- trust me. I certainly can't get as far as finding a Ben attached to a father called John- even though these were common names.



I have also pulled out every John Norris in Bolton that could have fathered him and died before he was married in 1889- but there are about 10 of them. I dont want to send off for 10 birth certs as it would cost a fortune and Im not sure what it would tell me that I dont already know.



I have searched the census reports from 1841 to 1881- but a Ben Norris of that age doesn't appear with a John Norris - or even on his own in the Bolton area. It seems like Ben vanished from all records until 1889 and Im beginning to think he was an alian that just appeared on earth on that date- because I certainly can't trace him before that.



Anyone got any bright ideas of anywhere else I can look?



I paid the Registration office some cash to do an advanced search for me by the way- and they sent me the birth cert for a Ben Norris born in Bolton - but in 1852 and with a father called jesse Norris. I guess his dads name began with J and the year began with 5, but other than that- it seems a vague connection.



I have tried every Benjamin born in Bolton in 1858 (omitting the surname in case he was illegitimate) - no luck.

I have tried Ben's born in other places- but found them all in later census married to someone else- so unless my G Grandpa had 2 wives 200 miles apart- this doesn't seem possible.



I have traced the witness on his marriage cert to a Robert Aslett that was raised at Aldershot before moving to Bolton- and was wondering how Ben knew him. Could have Ben have been born in Bolton, but then disappeared into some Army life alternative universe? Any ideas anyone? When was the Boar and Crimean war? My Gran had some medals that could have come from her father.



All help would be really appreciated -

Is Bens name wrong?

Is Bens age wrong?

Is his fathers name wrong?

Did Ben actualy ever die?

Are all the records wrong?

Was all of the above wrong and was Ben from Mars?

((((ooo

PMSL D



That was such an hilarious post!!!



2 Q's answered: Boer War was 1899 - 1902 and the Crimean 1853 - 56



I havent time to look for anything now, but if no one else picks up the thread I will have a glance around tomorrow night....although you seem to have searched everything possible!!!



Good Luck with your research



Loz

Thanks Loz

It seems that Ben would have been an adult male between 1874 and his death, so this omits him from being a soldier in either of these wars - esp as he did grace his presence for the 1901 census in Lancashire.

However maybe his possible father John was a soldier in these wars and Ben was born 2 years prior to conception in some army place like his mate Rob Aslett? All in all- seems a longshot- but we do have some family heirlooms from his family which are a pair of boots with POW engraved on the side. May have been from 1st WW possibly? My brother in San Diego grabbed the boots!





I am coming to the conclusion that either ....



1) the registration records are wrong- and since I myself (my birth) is not even registered on-line in Lancashire BMD (yet I do have a birth cert), I dont think I can totally trust the online records. Either that or I am from the afore mentioned same alian family....... OR



2) Ben Norris lied about who he was, and if so- why would he lie?



One other thought-maybe he was not born in England and when he said he was born in Bolton- his thick Scottish accent confused the registrar.

Frustrating!

Just to throw a bit of a dampner on the situation, compulsory registration of birth, marriage and death did not take place until 1875. Up to then it was voluntary.



So there is a very good chance that Ben's birth was never registered.



Sorry

Hi,



"I have Margarets and Bens marriage cert and in 1889 Ben says he was 31. In both the 1891 and 1901 census, Ben still gives an age which gives him a birth year of 1858"



Which month of the year did Benjamin marry? Is he the Benjamin on the 1901 cencus aged 44 born Bolton?



I have checked www.findmypast.com and found the following which may or may not be what your looking for:



Birth Male Sept Qtr 1857 Bolton 5C 213



Nanna

Thanks Nanna

I also subscribe to findmypast- but I didn;t find that one.

Yes- he could have been born anytime from April 1857 onwards. Have you more info? I owe you a pint of something if you have solved this one so fast.

Is this a Ben Norris as well?

Hi



Usually when a birth is registered as Male or Female it is a "stillbirth" or only breathed a short while and no name given



There is also

Norris Male Bolton 8c175

Registered as a death in the Sep 1857 Qtr......so probs can rule that out as Bens' birth



Will keep looking lol



Loz

Thanks all of you so much for your help. So ....my G Grandad was a ghost who died at birth. This would not suprise me at all and is better than the ET theory.



Actually - I was a midwife for 10 years and i do know of one baby pronounced dead who was found alive in the mortuary 2 days later. Low temp keeps people alive.



Only kidding about Ben Norris being dead from birth though () but I just don't know how you genealogist all keep so cool about this frustration.



My Mums side of the family are a dream and yet my Dads side impossible.



My Dad was illegitimate, never knew his father & died when I was 2 - and yet against all the odds - I found his father (many years dead), and compared to this it was so easy! Piece of cake.



I went to his home town, interviewed the elderly people of the town - found a link on Genes Reunited - got a photo of his Dad- recognised him as being identical to my Dad and me ( uncanny likeness) - got a dna link and before you know it- had his Dad nailed (married man name of Gill - wife pregnant at same time as my Gran- who he met at choir practice in 1918 - naughty chap).



You know - that was simple! This- aint! Oh- and maybe they didn't register Bens birth- but that still doesn't explain his none existance in 1861, 1871 and 1881 census- so its all a big mystery still.

Hi,



The nearest I can find is on the 1881 census..........born 1863, father Benjamin, mother Elizabeth, born and living in Bolton. Sorry I have tried but can't find a Ben with father John.

Hi N = my replies in Green





Which month of the year did Benjamin marry? Is he the Benjamin on the 1901 cencus aged 44 born Bolton?

April 3rd 1889, St Peters, Hindley



I have checked www.findmypast.com and found the following which may or may not be what your looking for:



Birth Male Sept Qtr 1857 Bolton 5C 213

This sounds very close- I am a member of this website- what name did you look under? Have you the URL please?



Nanna[/quote]