Thread: Slater - Hartfield Sussex please

Hi everybody



Trying to find my ggrandfather John Slater and his father Samuel on censuses and also tried the Weald Sussex website. To no avail. I have found Samuel Slaters and John Slaters but the ages and occupations don't match the details I have, which are as follows:-



Marriage certificate:



John Slater m. Elizabeth Trohear 13/4/1868 St Helier Jersey

Gunner R.A.

b Hartfield Sussex

age 29

Father Samuel Slater, blacksmith



Birth cert. of my grandmother:



Elizabeth Mary Slater b 14/7/1869 St Helier Jersey

Mother Elizabeth Trohear

Father John Slater, blacksmith



I have Elizabeth and Elizabeth Mary on all censuses except 1861 for wife Elizabeth. On 1851 she was living in Birkenhead (b IOM 1842/3 with parents Edward and Elizabeth). Her parents died in 1859 & 1860 and she then disappears which is unfortunate as that may have given me a clue as to where she met John Slater.



She resurfaces again in 1871 staying with her sister in Yorkshire with daughter Elizabeth Mary, farrier's wife (not widow), and in 1872 remarries in Ulverston to a Daniel Wybird. So John Slater must have died in 1871 or 1872. I have had Jersey lookups done elsewhere and they found no death for John in Jersey. He is not on any Jersey censuses either.



I thought about the army records but they are complicatedly organised in boxes at Kew, which is a long way away, and I am not sure I would learn anything more than I already know.



Sorry if this is a bit lengthy - just trying to give as much info as possible to save duplicated effort. I'm at my wits end with this now and don't know what else to try. Can anybody please help?



Regards,

Liza

Hi Liza

Have you seen this in 1861? Is it a possibility?

Charles Slater 48 widower head shoeing smith b Sussex Wisborough Green

Mary 22 daughter b Sussex Kirdford

John 20 nephew - journeyman - b Sussex Kirdford

Gillian

PS Not the one - this traces back to parents Edward Slater blacksmith and Eliza, this John is a blacksmith in later censuses but is still alive in 1881

Birth Samuel Slater 16.4.1793 son of Fortunatus & Ann - Hartfield St Mary - could be yours

Good - I was beginning to doubt his ever having existed!

Gillian

Hi Gillian



Thanks for your help again.



Sorry but I've been that route. The Samuel you have found does not have a son John and is not a blacksmith. If you look at the website www.wealdsussex.org and type in Samuel it gives quite a few of them. It gives occupations, census refs and you can also get a pedigree chart. My information just doesn't fit, which is why I'm so frustrated.



I've just looked up the Charles and Edward you found on the above site, but they didn't appear. I think Kirdford may be outside the area covered. It is not that close to Hartfield.



However these are the first Slater blacksmiths I have encountered in Sussex and I wonder if they may not be related to the family in some way, however distantly. It's worth bearing them in mind.



Whilst trying to find out about military records I came across something else in national archives. It is very unlikely that this is my Slaters, but thought I'd just mention it to be complete. Ref J77/99/1417 Divorce court file. Wife's petition for judicial separation, 1870, appellant Elizabeth Slater, respondent John Slater. It doesn't give any indication of where they were living. An application for judicial separation is not the same as divorce, so if it was my Elizabeth she would still not be free to marry in 1872.



I'll dig around Charles and Edward Slater a bit on other censuses and see if there's anything else to find. Any other suggestions most welcome!



Regards,

Liza

Hi Gillian



Just a thought. If you can get access to Sussex parish records, could you check for John Slater births please, to blacksmith fathers if possible. The WealdSussex website seems to cover a lot but it could be it doesn't have everything.



I'm also beginning to wonder if the info I have off the certificates is correct. Most suspect I suppose is likely to be the age given. Do you have any experience of wrong ages on certificates and the possible reasons for this? And I suppose John could be a middle name frequently used, but not the baptised name. And Samuel might be a step-father instead of his real father. Oh dear, too many possibilities going down that road. But I really cannot understand why I haven't found them.



Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Liza

Hi Liza - I'm absolutely certain that the info on the marriage certificate is suspect. I think the place of birth is probably wrong. The IGI does not have Hartfield baptisms for the relevant period but familyhistoryonline does and there is no John.

I have the marriage index for Sussex and the only Samuel Slaters I have ruled out.

Hartfield is on the edge of the Sussex county boundary so the family could easily have drifted into Kent or Surrey. I think you should probably start looking outside Sussex.

There are other Slater blacksmiths about - Pulborough Green 1841 John age 55 and William age 31 (probably John's son).

I have found this on 1841 Surrey Southwark St Saviours -

Samuel Slater 30 smith

Hannah 30

Sarah 9

All born out County

Gillian

Hi Gillian



Thanks for your further efforts on this.



I couldn't find the Samuel/Hannah/Sarah record on 1841, but did find the family on 1851 - just the same people, no John. And they were all born in Wednesbury, Staffordshire, so unlikely to be them. Nice try though!



Having said that I did find on IGI a baptism for John Slater 15/4/1838, Saint Michael, Ashton-under-Lyme, Lancs, parents Samuel and Hannah. I tried to find them on censuses but no joy so far. Do you think this is worth persuing?



I had a look on IGI for Samuels and Johns associated with the 2 Wisborough Green blacksmiths, John and William. There was one Samuel born in early 1700s - too early - and that was it. Unless IGI is incomplete of course.



I've also spent about 3 hours checking every Samuel Slater in England on 1841 census without finding a single blacksmith!



There is a scenario where Hartfield birthplace could still be right. Suppose John's mother came from there, or her parents were living there at time of John's birth. She could have had him in Hartfield and then gone off 'home' to have him baptised. Which place are they the more likely to record on censuses as 'place of birth', where he was born or where he was baptised?



I'll see if I can find Samuel Slater/Hannah marriages on IGI. Apart from this I've no other ideas.



Regards,

Liza

I think you'll have to take a holiday in Sussex looking at parish registers.

I've had a look at 1821 census Hartfield & 1820 poll book & directories - no sign of any Samuel Slater other than the son of Fortunatus.

Sorry!

Gillian

Hi Gillian



Well you have certainly tried! And I really appreciate all your efforts. I didn't know censuses existed before 1841!



It looks like you have exhausted the possibility of Samuel Slater coming from Hartfield area. It must be his mother's family, or certificate is wrong.



I'm going to have to try to approach this from another angle. I'll give it some thought and get back to you if I come up with anything likely which needs parish record lookup.



Could you just tell me how you found that Samuel Slater blacksmith record in Surrey on 1841 census? I couldn't find it on Ancestry. Was surname misspelled or did you look it up somewhere else?



Hope you have better luck finding the Coopers in Whitwick!



Thanks again.

Liza