Thread: Upping school leaving age

Chris · 13-01-2007, 12:18 AM

I see they want children to stay on school till 18, any views on this folks?

Starlight · 13-01-2007, 12:51 AM

Hi Chris,

Young people will be required to stay in school, training or workplace training until the age of 18. Those that have plans to stay on at School to do A levels, or go to college to learn new skills will not be affected.

petal · 13-01-2007, 11:25 AM

I heard this yesterday...........don't really think it will be that much different to be honest but haven't looked at it in depth.
At the moment the young people with the ability to do so stay on at school to take A levels or go to college to take them so they get a qualiiification.
Others go to college (now they all seem to be called 'Universities' !) to do any number of courses from bricklaying, art, to science etc. They get a qualification.
The Apprenticeships seem to be like the training schemes on offer now (the like that our lad is currently on) where there's practical work involved, i.e. brickwork, carpentry etc. aimed at those who don't have to acedemic ability to cope with a lot of paperwork. They still get an NVQ at the end of of it. Another qualification.

What concerned me was the mention that there will be no 'non-skilled' work available for young people. There are always going to be youngsters who would rather leave school and get a job.......any job. So does this mean that to be a Builders Labourer or a Factory worker or someone who works on the land picking veg. will need a qualification ?

Whatever our Tone/Gordon decide to do they should not take away 'choice' nor should they come up with these bright ideas in order to reduce the 'unemployment figures' which is what it seems to me they're doing.

Flood · 13-01-2007, 03:04 PM

This is what it used to be like years ago before they swapped it round. It used to be that you'd go to primary school for 4 years, then middle school for 4 years and then stay on at high school until you were 18 to do A levels and O levels.
I'd been at high school for a year when it was swapped round so i was 13-14 years old. I said it was a mistake then to change it, and now I'm so glad that they've finally seen sense and are going to turn it back the way it was. At least that way the pupils could learn a trade and get some experience under their belts.
I'm not sure if pupils will like it at all, though.

petal · 13-01-2007, 04:12 PM

When I was at school there was the choice of staying on to study A levels or leaving and getting a job. I got a job........there were more about then and most school leavers were a bit more work-motivated.
When my son left school in the 1970's he started to get into the 'don't want that job' mode but I found a job near where we lived and he's worked solidly eversince. My other son was really getting in a state when he left college here at 18 and couldn't get a job so he went back to college in sussex to get more qualifications. Still couldnt get a job so he was a p/time cleaner at BHS for a while and p/time asst.caretaker at a school till he got a job at Brighton college in the construction dept. (far cry from the art he wanted to do) Now he's working at the college he studied at in the art dept. -but he's never been a 'non worker. Some of the kids I've had are so picky about what they want to do. Give kids choice but it has to be a choice of doing something, anything as long as they're not doing nothing.

Flood · 13-01-2007, 08:07 PM

Yes, I agree with that, they must have a choice. But some sixteen year olds are so indecisive that maybe staying on would be beneficial in helping to make up their minds. Even if they have decided what they want to do, staying on would help them gain experience in their chosen field.
There are two sides to every argument, I understand that, and I expect we'll carry on debating this like we did with the ASBO's.
I have written this with a smile on my face. I love a good difference of opinion!!

petal · 13-01-2007, 08:22 PM

It would be a good thing for kids to stay at school .......give them time to decide their future.........but what happens to those who by 15 are fed up, want to leave, have no GCSE's and end up loitering around the streets all day? I've known kids go to college at 16 and leave after a few months saying the usual 'I'm bored'............later on they either go back to college wishing they'd stayed there or manage to get a job as they're that bit older.
Something definitely needs doing but if kids are held in school when they don't want to be there, they kick off, end up getting excluded for a day/week/month -lovely............no school, just what they wanted..............and become a general nuisance. But there's not much else the teachers can do.
There has to be a solution but I'm not sure the government have got it right. From what I've heard and read it sounds like they're juggling figures and like everything else it comes down to money.

Pauline1 · 13-01-2007, 08:51 PM

Well this is only my opinion, It's a good idea to raise the school leaving age to 18 and as a member had stated in their post there isn't as many jobs about now as there was in the 60's 70's era plus leaving school at 16 means that if you haven't got a job to go in to then you can't get dole until you're 18 and also it would probably cut down on youth crime and street robbery. The Government are starting to talk sense now (they suddenly had a brainwave or a bloomin transplant)
My son left school in the 90's and went on to college for 12 months, he studied I.T. and art and design, his main aim was to make computer games but the colleges down here don't use the 3D Studio Max software which my son would have needed to work with.. shame really.

slizzy · 14-01-2007, 01:17 AM

Is there a plus and a minus to this proposal? of course there is, for one child it will be a plus and for another a minus, same for parents, some will see it as a positive and others as a negative. There will always be youngsters who dislike school and always be parents who would prefer their children were working and earning money. As we know, you cannot please all of the people all of the time,merely some of the people some of the time, so should personal choice be considered? It's a tough debate, there are young people who would like the opportunity to study further and thereby improve their chances and develop themselves, and most (I would hope) are allowed this opportunity, unfortunately not all children are encouraged by their parents and maybe these kids would benefit. So coming in from that perspective I say it's a good proposal, however what about non- academic kids? Should they be forced to stay in education, when they are already struggling, and feeling embarassed by not achieving? I don't think so. To be fair to all, wouldn't it be a good idea to bring back the apprenticeship schemes which were available in the 60's and before? So many 'lost kids' have, I'm sure practical skills to offer and would benefit from the opportunity to practice these skills, not in a theoretical environment but a practical one. Non-academics are generally bored by theory but, given the chance to 'practice' and learn a trade can be motivating for them.

To sum up, my opinion is it will benefit some, but by no means all. Will it be an improvement? to some yes, to others no. I do not believe forcing young people to stay in education will benefit all kids. I also agree that the government are playing with figures and want us to believe unemployment statistics are favourable. Isn't that an insult to our intelligence?

petal · 14-01-2007, 03:08 PM

There are current schemes for young people who have either been expelled from school/don't want to or couldn't cope with college or any academic environment and aren't equipped to get employment (many job adverts say 'experience necessary - difficult when you can't find a job to give you the experience.
The lad we care for, and a lot of his friends, are on various schemes where practical work is focused on much more, i.e. building, carpentry etc. The trouble is with these schemes most of them seem to part time. Our lad finished his at 1.30pm and its only for four days. We've had some young people attending courses that are only for three days. All this is supposed to equip them with the necessary skills needed for work........what's lacking is somehow getting through to them that in the workplace hours tend to be 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. It does seem silly to me going from a five day a week school to a part time training scheme and then on to (hopefully) a five day working week.
For these training schemes most of the young people get paid £30 a week for attendance. Lack of attendance by one day means forfeiting the whole of the money if no reasonable reason is given for not attending which I think is very fair.
Its a topic we go on and on about and it will benefit those who want to do A levels - but they also have the option of doing these at a college, not necessarily in school. Many young people long for the day they can walk out of the school gates never to return again. Try and force these young people to stay in school until they're 18 and they will simply not turn up.

13-01-2007, 12:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Chris Ancestry Aid Owner Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK - England Posts: 5,581	Upping school leaving age I see they want children to stay on school till 18, any views on this folks?
	Chris Ancestry Aid Owner

13-01-2007, 12:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
Starlight Ancestry Aid Manager Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 16,355 Total Awards: 8	Re: Upping school leaving age Hi Chris, Young people will be required to stay in school, training or workplace training until the age of 18. Those that have plans to stay on at School to do A levels, or go to college to learn new skills will not be affected.
	Starlight Ancestry Aid Manager Hampshire:- Barks, Bartholomew, Carpenter, Cousens, Cousins, Dumper, Gallagher, Goodchild, Glasspool, Hoskins, Light, Mason, Monday, Mundy, Pearce, Pitt, Shepherd, Spreadbury, Staniford, Terrill, Thornton, Warne, Webb, Woodford & many more. Top Tip: Use the forum search engine

13-01-2007, 11:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
petal Super Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Horncastle, Lincolnshire Posts: 8,637 Total Awards: 5	Re: Upping school leaving age I heard this yesterday...........don't really think it will be that much different to be honest but haven't looked at it in depth. At the moment the young people with the ability to do so stay on at school to take A levels or go to college to take them so they get a qualiiification. Others go to college (now they all seem to be called 'Universities' !) to do any number of courses from bricklaying, art, to science etc. They get a qualification. The Apprenticeships seem to be like the training schemes on offer now (the like that our lad is currently on) where there's practical work involved, i.e. brickwork, carpentry etc. aimed at those who don't have to acedemic ability to cope with a lot of paperwork. They still get an NVQ at the end of of it. Another qualification. What concerned me was the mention that there will be no 'non-skilled' work available for young people. There are always going to be youngsters who would rather leave school and get a job.......any job. So does this mean that to be a Builders Labourer or a Factory worker or someone who works on the land picking veg. will need a qualification ? Whatever our Tone/Gordon decide to do they should not take away 'choice' nor should they come up with these bright ideas in order to reduce the 'unemployment figures' which is what it seems to me they're doing.
	(AKA Mary) How beautiful it is to do nothing and rest afterwards...

13-01-2007, 03:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Flood AA SUPPORTER Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: A great place in Devon called Tiverton. Posts: 5,022 Total Awards: 4	Re: Upping school leaving age This is what it used to be like years ago before they swapped it round. It used to be that you'd go to primary school for 4 years, then middle school for 4 years and then stay on at high school until you were 18 to do A levels and O levels. I'd been at high school for a year when it was swapped round so i was 13-14 years old. I said it was a mistake then to change it, and now I'm so glad that they've finally seen sense and are going to turn it back the way it was. At least that way the pupils could learn a trade and get some experience under their belts. I'm not sure if pupils will like it at all, though.

13-01-2007, 04:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
petal Super Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Horncastle, Lincolnshire Posts: 8,637 Total Awards: 5	Re: Upping school leaving age When I was at school there was the choice of staying on to study A levels or leaving and getting a job. I got a job........there were more about then and most school leavers were a bit more work-motivated. When my son left school in the 1970's he started to get into the 'don't want that job' mode but I found a job near where we lived and he's worked solidly eversince. My other son was really getting in a state when he left college here at 18 and couldn't get a job so he went back to college in sussex to get more qualifications. Still couldnt get a job so he was a p/time cleaner at BHS for a while and p/time asst.caretaker at a school till he got a job at Brighton college in the construction dept. (far cry from the art he wanted to do) Now he's working at the college he studied at in the art dept. -but he's never been a 'non worker. Some of the kids I've had are so picky about what they want to do. Give kids choice but it has to be a choice of doing something, anything as long as they're not doing nothing.
	(AKA Mary) How beautiful it is to do nothing and rest afterwards...

13-01-2007, 08:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Flood AA SUPPORTER Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: A great place in Devon called Tiverton. Posts: 5,022 Total Awards: 4	Re: Upping school leaving age Yes, I agree with that, they must have a choice. But some sixteen year olds are so indecisive that maybe staying on would be beneficial in helping to make up their minds. Even if they have decided what they want to do, staying on would help them gain experience in their chosen field. There are two sides to every argument, I understand that, and I expect we'll carry on debating this like we did with the ASBO's. I have written this with a smile on my face. I love a good difference of opinion!!

13-01-2007, 08:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
petal Super Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Horncastle, Lincolnshire Posts: 8,637 Total Awards: 5	Re: Upping school leaving age It would be a good thing for kids to stay at school .......give them time to decide their future.........but what happens to those who by 15 are fed up, want to leave, have no GCSE's and end up loitering around the streets all day? I've known kids go to college at 16 and leave after a few months saying the usual 'I'm bored'............later on they either go back to college wishing they'd stayed there or manage to get a job as they're that bit older. Something definitely needs doing but if kids are held in school when they don't want to be there, they kick off, end up getting excluded for a day/week/month -lovely............no school, just what they wanted..............and become a general nuisance. But there's not much else the teachers can do. There has to be a solution but I'm not sure the government have got it right. From what I've heard and read it sounds like they're juggling figures and like everything else it comes down to money.
	(AKA Mary) How beautiful it is to do nothing and rest afterwards...

13-01-2007, 08:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Pauline1 AA SUPPORTER Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nottingham UK Posts: 1,342 Total Awards: 4	Re: Upping school leaving age Well this is only my opinion, It's a good idea to raise the school leaving age to 18 and as a member had stated in their post there isn't as many jobs about now as there was in the 60's 70's era plus leaving school at 16 means that if you haven't got a job to go in to then you can't get dole until you're 18 and also it would probably cut down on youth crime and street robbery. The Government are starting to talk sense now (they suddenly had a brainwave or a bloomin transplant) My son left school in the 90's and went on to college for 12 months, he studied I.T. and art and design, his main aim was to make computer games but the colleges down here don't use the 3D Studio Max software which my son would have needed to work with.. shame really.
	Researching! Beswick Staffordshire-Cheshire Hulme's and Heathcotes Cheshire & Lancs and Hatton's of Cheshire

14-01-2007, 01:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
slizzy Ancestry Aid Staff Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,202 Total Awards: 8	Re: Upping school leaving age Is there a plus and a minus to this proposal? of course there is, for one child it will be a plus and for another a minus, same for parents, some will see it as a positive and others as a negative. There will always be youngsters who dislike school and always be parents who would prefer their children were working and earning money. As we know, you cannot please all of the people all of the time,merely some of the people some of the time, so should personal choice be considered? It's a tough debate, there are young people who would like the opportunity to study further and thereby improve their chances and develop themselves, and most (I would hope) are allowed this opportunity, unfortunately not all children are encouraged by their parents and maybe these kids would benefit. So coming in from that perspective I say it's a good proposal, however what about non- academic kids? Should they be forced to stay in education, when they are already struggling, and feeling embarassed by not achieving? I don't think so. To be fair to all, wouldn't it be a good idea to bring back the apprenticeship schemes which were available in the 60's and before? So many 'lost kids' have, I'm sure practical skills to offer and would benefit from the opportunity to practice these skills, not in a theoretical environment but a practical one. Non-academics are generally bored by theory but, given the chance to 'practice' and learn a trade can be motivating for them. To sum up, my opinion is it will benefit some, but by no means all. Will it be an improvement? to some yes, to others no. I do not believe forcing young people to stay in education will benefit all kids. I also agree that the government are playing with figures and want us to believe unemployment statistics are favourable. Isn't that an insult to our intelligence?

14-01-2007, 03:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
petal Super Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Horncastle, Lincolnshire Posts: 8,637 Total Awards: 5	Re: Upping school leaving age There are current schemes for young people who have either been expelled from school/don't want to or couldn't cope with college or any academic environment and aren't equipped to get employment (many job adverts say 'experience necessary - difficult when you can't find a job to give you the experience. The lad we care for, and a lot of his friends, are on various schemes where practical work is focused on much more, i.e. building, carpentry etc. The trouble is with these schemes most of them seem to part time. Our lad finished his at 1.30pm and its only for four days. We've had some young people attending courses that are only for three days. All this is supposed to equip them with the necessary skills needed for work........what's lacking is somehow getting through to them that in the workplace hours tend to be 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. It does seem silly to me going from a five day a week school to a part time training scheme and then on to (hopefully) a five day working week. For these training schemes most of the young people get paid £30 a week for attendance. Lack of attendance by one day means forfeiting the whole of the money if no reasonable reason is given for not attending which I think is very fair. Its a topic we go on and on about and it will benefit those who want to do A levels - but they also have the option of doing these at a college, not necessarily in school. Many young people long for the day they can walk out of the school gates never to return again. Try and force these young people to stay in school until they're 18 and they will simply not turn up.
	(AKA Mary) How beautiful it is to do nothing and rest afterwards...