Thread: John gray rowan

Hi All, I'm trying to find the DOB of John Gray Rowan (married to a Margaret) who I think is my Gt Gt Grandfather. He and his family show up in both the 1901 (living in Mountnorris, Armagh aged 62) and 1911 (living in Portadown aged 72) Irish Census. I know that I can estimate the date but can find nothing in the records which will enable me to apply for a birth certificate. A further complication is that I found a John GREY Rowan (spelt Grey instead of Gray) who married a Hannah Currius (a widow who was formerly named Rowland) and they married on 26th June 1896. Getting really confused with it all and would very much appreciate some help. Many thanks in advance.

Your ancestor’s age means he was born c 1839. Statutory recording of births only started in Ireland in 1864, so you won’t find a birth certificate for him.

What you may be able to find is his baptism, if the records have survived. To do that, you need to know his exact religion and his townland or parish of birth. You know from the census that he was Presbyterian. He appears to be born in Co Armagh, but if you look at the actual page for the 1911 census you’ll see he originally wrote Co Cavan and then deleted it. So there is some uncertainty. Perhaps he was born near the Armagh/Cavan border. His occupation as a pedlar doesn’t help too much as that suggests he spent a lot of time moving about. (I note too that wife Mgt was born in Armagh in the 1901 but Down in the 1911. I think Down is the correct place of birth but it shows that at times you cannot place too much reliance on the information).

I think I can see John’s marriage on the LDS pilot site, in Kilkeel, Co Down 1867, Volume 11, page 711. That will give you his father’s name and occupation as well as John’s address at the time of the marriage.

Once you have John’s father’s name from his marriage cert, you’ll have to trawl through the baptisms for Presbyterian churches in Armagh (and perhaps Cavan). I’d start with those closest to his address at the time of the marriage. Another option is to see if we can find his father in Griffiths Valuation, assuming he was still alive when it was compiled (1856-64).

Details of the Presbyterian churches in Armagh and what records have survived are on the PRONI website:

Online guides and indexes | Public Record Office of Northern Ireland

You may have noticed on the 1911 census that there was a new child Edgar aged 1. It seems unlikely that John & Mgt were the parents, though that’s what is written on the census. Probably one of the daughters has had an illegitimate child. It has been then added in as one of the grandparents for reasons of reputability (this was very common), but obviously age is against that being true. You might want to get Edgar’s birth cert to establish his true mother.

I have had a quick look at the LDS site and have seen the following that may be most of the children’s births:

Edgar Perry Rowan Oct – Dec 1909 Newry Volume 1, page 701 (If he is illegitimate, the middle name Perry is often a clue as to his father’s surname).
David Samuel Rowan Newry June – Sept 1893, Vol 1 page 763
Isaac Rowan Newry, April – June 1890, Vol 1 page 743
Edith May Rowan Banbridge June – September 1887 Vol 1 page 183
Martha Anne Rowan – two choices :
Newry 1875 Vol 6, page 850 or Banbridge 1875, Vol 16, page 166. Either might be yours. Can’t really say.

Not sure I can help you with the marriage between John Grey Rowan & Hannah Currius. Clearly your John is still with his original wife Mgt in 1901 & 1911 so it seems like someone else with a similar name. If you are uncertain, why not get a copy of their 1896 marriage cert to see?


The originals of Irish BDM certs are not viewable on line. There are some pay to view sites where you get transcripts but if you want to see the full details on the certificate you have to order a copy. You have a choice of options. You can order them from GRO in Belfast (if it’s an NI BDM), the local Registry Office or from GRO Roscommon. Personally, I use GRO Roscommon because they offer a photocopy option, which is cheaper than a full formal certificate, and it eliminates the possibility of transcription errors. Provided you give them accurate information, and they don’t have to do any searching, a photocopy only costs €4.

Go to the GRO Roscommon website: www.groireland.ie/ Download the application forms you need, and fill them in with the information you have, including the location, year, quarter (if there is one shown), Volume & page number. Don’t worry if you have to leave some boxes blank. You then either fax or post the forms off to them (there is no e-mail option if you are just ordering a photocopy). It generally takes about 10 days from when they receive the order.

Elwyn - thank you so much for your help, you have really gone to a lot of trouble on my behalf and it is very much appreciated. I'm fairly new to family history and have been fishing around in the dark somewhat, so your guidance is a real help to me. I didn't realise that recording of births in Ireland only started in 1864, nor did I notice when looking at the 1911 census on line that Co. Cavan had been crossed out - need to brush up on my detective skills a little!! I certainly now feel that I am able to move forward with this and once again many thanks.

my greatgrandfather was john gray rowan married to margaret perry they had 10 children my grandfather was one of them john gray rowan married to hannah currins nee rowland they had 6 children with only 2 surviving may and my dad john gray rowan he married my mum sarah martin and had 6 children i am the second youngest they went to australia in 1948 after my dad came out of the r.a.f my 2 brothers and youngest sister live there my grandfathers brother andrew died at flanders in 1916 .My sister often visited the portadown rowans we understood them to be my dads aunts edie and lizzie there was a edgar who was only young his second name was taken from his grandmother perry hope this gives you a bit info we must be related.